Eb Flute from India (via E-Bay)

Irish Flute
1

So I took a chance and bought one of those $35 “Eb Flute with Hardcase” specials on E-Bay. It came today.

Removed the cork immediately – it was just a thin slice of cork, placed at an angle in the headjoint – and replaced with a synthetic cork left lying around from some bottle of wine or other. The new “cork” fit perfectly. Playing improved drmatically from this repair alone.

The keys are post mountedand a bit cheesy: sturdy enough, but not very pretty. A couple pads were a bit loose, but that was easy enough to fix. The keys seal well, but the action is a bit slow on a couple. I suppose one could fit stronger springs.

The tone itself is quite good, suprisingly. Strong, capable of sweetness or reediness. Played without using the keys, response is fast and crisp. Sounds very close to wood.

But man oh man is the tuning ever bad. Not an accurate scale, by any stretch. I think it might be fixable with judicious use of tape, and possibly enlarging a hole or two a tiny bit. It’s not really far off – it doesn’t sound like some Eastern scale or anything – but a few cents off on most of the intervals. I’ll see if I can tweak a bit – Ithink it’s fixable.

Haven’t smoothed the inside of mine with fine sandpaper yet, but will do that eventually. . .

All in all, the quality is better than I’d expect from a $35 instrument, and the tone is very good, but I wouldn’t get one of these as a starter for a new player or student; they’d struggle with the tuning and give up. Probably a tweakable instrument for the handy and experienced, though. I’m actually surprised at how nice it sounds, and if the tuning can be fixed, it’ll be a pretty nice instrument to toot on once in a while. And now I can practice keywork (I hate the keys that rest right where I normally keep my right-hand pinky to stabilize the instrument – that’ll take some getting used to…).

Oh: the free case is worth what it costs you. It holds the instrument, but it’s not a fine piece of workmanship.

All in all, I’m surprised it sounds as good as it does, and it’ll be a real find if the tuning can be adjusted so that it’s in tune.

–Aaron

2

Remember that on this flute, and the Boosey pratten which it was modeled after, the Eb key is meant to be depressed all the time. Put your pinky on the key! That will bring your e naturals up to pitch, especially at the second octave.

3

Okay, the Eb key is the first key on the foot of the flute, right? The key closest to the pinky?

Depressing that key while playing – on this flute – causes a horrible, horrible sounding scale to come out of the flute. Assuming this key is placed correctly – depressing the key opens the first venthole on the footjoint (the hole closest to the right hand, I mean, not to the end of the flute) – then something’s definitely very wrong with this flute.

Or am I pushing the wrong key?

4

Well, I don’t know if this is the same sort of flute, but this page may seem “awfully” familiar to ya:

http://www.flutesite.com/a_really_awful_flute.htm

I have learned my lesson with regards to these flutes.

Best,

–James

5

Yikes.

Mine looks the same, but sounds much, much better than the flute you’ve recorded on the webpage that URL points to. I’d have been horrified, too, if mine sounded like that. Mine’s just a little off; the one you got was way, way off. Also, the tone of the flute I have is really very good, unlike the weak, dying-kitten tone of the flute you got. Either QC has improved, I got lucky, or you were very unlucky. . .

Shoner, venting the “Eb” key brings the “D” (talking like this is a D flute, rather than an Eb…) up to, well, Eb. Do you mean I should depress that key only for notes other than “D” (Eb, really), or is something else going on?

Thanks, all.

6

Aaron, try pulling the foot out by about 3/16".
let us now what it did, on mine it corrected the intonation (Eb being too high).
I agree with you, it’s a fun flute to play, now I want a “real” one :wink:
Carla’s telling me, I’m one flute closer to a divorce!
eilam.

7

Well to show you how stupid I am I bought one of these flutes even after reading about it and listening to the clips on James site. I don`t think I will get it for about 10 more days but needles to say any info on tweeking and playing will be read and treasured. There is another thread concerning this little beast started by Jayhawk not to long ago, in fact I just checked and it is still on the first page. Maybe we should start an owners club, The East Indian Eb flute owners of the world. Well maybe not.

Tom

8

Guys, sorry to disapoint you, but I had a plain old rosewood D flute from Pakistan, not one of these fine Eb flutes from India. Mine was unfixable (unless you happen to be a professional flute maker) in my opinion. These Eb ones sound light years ahead of the wood Pakistani models - sometimes there IS something to be said for mass production! :laughing:

I’m still thinking of buying one of these Eb beauties. Once again, I ask, if you pull it out far enough how does it sound as a D flute? Weak? Out of tune? I know on some good Eb flutes it sounds pretty darn good!

Eric

9

I remember your trials and tribulations with the rosewood flute Eric. Great reading. I was talking about the thread you started asking the same question of Shoner. It turned up some interesting posts about the Eb flute. And by the way if you decide to get one of them dont bid on one until there is about 2 minutes left. And dont bid on one that has even one bid on it. There is some kink of scam going on and they will be bid up to 49 dollars before the bidding stops. I experamented with 3 flutes and that is what I found anyway. Now back to my Dixon.

Tom

10

I have one of those also. It came with a threaded tenon which I immediately converted over to cork. This also fixed a leak.

It’s a pretty instrument, the case is also very nice. The tuning isn’t the greatest - but later I realized that it wasn’t as bad as I initially thought since the fingering is a little unusual.

I’ve noticed this peculiar thing on Ebay regarding last minute bidding - I wonder is someone related to the seller is jacking-up that auction. Here I thought I just paranoid.

11

herbivore, The Eb key functions as a vent key for most notes other than D of course. Works primarily to sharpen the E and just a tad on F#. For fingering on this flute check out Terry’s original Pratten fingering chart. There must be some quality control issues with the flutes as the tuning on mine is not an issue. This flute does benefit from an extremely focused and forced blowing style. Open and loose like you’d play on a boehm will not produce the best sound. Sounds best when you really bear down on it.

And as rama will attest, the lower C# and C keys are likely not to prove functional on most of these Indian flutes without some pad reseating. Sorry about that but hey, Pat doesn’t even make a flute with those keys. Remember, grease up that tuning slide before it freezes up on you. And try a green 3M pad instead of sandpaper to clean up the bore.

12

Hey Daniel; if you`ll notice on the Eb flute bid page it is a secret bid type thing. In otherwords the email address or username of the bidder is not displayed. I have been watching these flutes for a while and what I noticed is that if someone bids on one and there is still plenty of time to bid again the bids start going up a buck every time. They always stop at 49 dollars and the flute sells for 51 or 55 dollars. Where if it is sold in the last min. of the auction it sells for 35 bucks. Now far be it for me to say there is something going on there but I am suspisious. :roll:

Tom

PS: I still bought one :stuck_out_tongue:

13

Shoner, I’m really happy I bought one based on your recommendation.
It is a fun flute, and since your going to sell me your boosey, I know that your left with a good instrument.
I would never leave you with the Indian one, if it was crap.
Let me know what do I owe you (we know, you got it for around $1000;).
Thanks, yours truly, eilam.

14

Could be QC; I’m going to try adjusting the footjoint tonight, per Eilam’s suggestion, and mess around a bit (including some time with a 3M pad, maybe). If I make any discoveries, I’ll let folks here know.

This flute does benefit from an extremely focused and forced blowing style. Open and loose like you’d play on a boehm will not produce the best sound. Sounds best when you really bear down on it.

I noticed that, too, so that’s how I played it. I’ve only played trad flutes, never Boehm (except when messing around with someone else’s just for kicks), so I’ve never had the problem of trying to revert to a Boehm embouchure, as I never had one to begin with. I’m impressed with the tone of the flute, so if tuning can be improved, I’ll be a happy guy.

And as rama will attest, the lower C# and C keys are likely not to prove functional on most of these Indian flutes without some pad reseating.

Forgot to mention in my original posting that I had to fiddle with these keys to get the flute to play much at all; they were both held barely open by their springs, causing them to interfere with the lower notes in the scale. Had to get them to come up off the holes a bit more. Those keys are also pretty badly made (on my flute); they’re weak and slow. I don’t intend to use them, though, so. . .

Remember, grease up that tuning slide before it freezes up on you. And try a green 3M pad instead of sandpaper to clean up the bore.

Will do, on both counts. (Inside of the bore actually looked pretty smooth on mine, but I’ll give it a quick polish just for kicks.)

If I can improve the tuning, it’ll really have been a good bargain. If I can’t, well, I can practice keywork for that day I decide to splurge on a keyed wooden flute. I feel very clumsy right now; it’s hard to keep myself from half-holing or cross-fingering and to hit a key instead, and I have no idea how it’ll work at speed; feels so unnatural just now. But muscle training and memory does wondrous things, in time.

–Aaron

15

Aaron

I hope you won’t mind some thoughts on tuning…(i’m including info for “keyless” flute owners too)

First on initial plug setting. The formula 7 *( D/6 ) or 7 times the internal diameter of the headjoint divided by 6, will give you the distance from the plug face to the center of the embouchure hole. Measure with a marked stick with the distance calculated. Center the line in the embouchure and push the plug in until it meets the stick tip. After this initial setting you will have to “Tweak” to get a good scale in both octaves.

Overall tone response. Slightly reduce the bore end hole with a beeswax ring for better acoustic coupling at the embouchure .Tune toneholes from the bottom note upwards and try to keep your breath pressure equal on all notes. If you wish a different option than the beeswax, roll a tube of paper 1" wide until it is 2 or 3mm thick. Insert it in the bore and paint it with hot wax, centered between the embouchure and the top tonehole. The Japanese “Nohkan Flute” uses this design.

Nohkan Flute diagram here(click on the 5th icon at top)
http://www.asahi-net.or.jp/~DL1S-YMGC/index-e.htm

Tuning toneholes. Toneholes can be flattened in pitch by several means. You can make them deeper by adding to the upper rim of the tonehole. You can reduce the diameter of the tonehole with the “goop du jour” but this will reduce loudness as well and lastly,you can plug the tonehole in several ways and re-drill.

Sharpening pitch. Increasing the tonehole diameter will sharpen pitch but also increase loudness(holes should all be close to uniform or slightly increasing in size towards the bottom for uniform volume). You can also reduce the depth of the tonehole by sanding a “saddle” around the hole like a Recorder.

Hope this will be of use
Thomas Hastay.

16

I’m going to try replacing that cork. I know that changing the tenons to cork did a lot of good - maybe the cork will help even more.
I actually bought the thing with the idea of making a whistle headjoint for it so that I could use it as a whistle as well as a flute.
I also wanted to see the keys for ideas - I would like to build a piccolo in D with keys.

The tuning isn’t very good.

17

Hey Daniel if you do go ahead with the whistle head joint let us know. That would be fun to try out.

Tom

18

Do let us know how that whistle head works out, Daniel. And do pull out the old cork and replace it with a nice new one. I used a synthetic cork from some cheap cooking wine; nice flat face, fit perfectly.

In fact, last night I fiddled with the cork placement a bit, and improved the tuning considerably on the instrument. Pulling out the footjoint a bit, as Eilam suggested, and adjusting the cork a bit while playing a xxxxxx “D” (Eb, really) in 3 octaves and xxxooo “G” in 3 octaves per Terry McGee’s instructions on his webpage helped a good deal (3rd octave G wasn’t quite there, or pretty). Tuning is still not perfect, but pretty durn close. Acceptable enough that when I played a couple tunes for my wife, she didn’t notice any tuning problems.

Also, per shoner’s post, this flute likes to be played pretty hard. It gets a very woodlike, reedy tone when pushed, and is well worth the price once you figure the thing out. The keys still seem a little mushy to me, but hey, you can’t get a single key added to a wood flute for the price of this entire Eb.

Thanks, too, Thomas-Hastay, for the detailed tips. I may spend some time one weekend tweaking the toneholes to see what I can come up with.

Best,

Aaron