I notice on the post about how many hours a day we listen to music that all of us are
“turned-off” by the word “Celtic”.
I notice tho that the c.d. bins in the stores
have most everything under that title.
I am wondering what we would all perfer to
see and why other can’t stand that word, Celtic. For me it doesn’t describe exactly
what is on that particular c.d…is it
old stone-age drums beats, or new-age stuff where they used an old tune..you have no
way of knowing.
Lolly
[ This Message was edited by: lollycross on 2002-10-20 18:35 ]
[ This Message was edited by: lollycross on 2002-10-20 18:36 ]
I have no problem with the word Celtic.Most of my compilation CD,s have `Celtic´somewhere in the title.Lets see…Celtic graces,Celtic tides,Gentle breeze(Celtic journey vol 10)..lots more and they,re all great CD,s. Mike
I am proud to use the word “Celtic” often to describe myself, and certainly my eye zooms to that word upon seeing it anywhere. Technically it is the name of the culture of the people who inhabited Ireland and what is now Great Britain before, during, and after the Iron Age. Nowadays it is used to name the religion which seems to be coming back; getting back to technicity again, the religion is actually Paganism. I personally solve the problem by saying Celtic-Pagan. Same goes for music… the term is bantered around alot, and could be on the label of any CD from true ethnic folk music to new-agey almost techno artists. I guess you just have to be careful to certify that anything labeled “Celtic” is the real deal.. or what you’re looking for, in any case.
I don’t have a problem with the word, but I do make a distinction between traditional Celtic music and the “nouveau-Celtic” stuff that is currently so very in among the “New Age” crowd. I will often, in conversation, specify “traditional” music to avoid confusion with “New Age” music…so often today, when people say they like “Celtic music,” they mean Enya, not the Chieftains or the Boys of the Lough.
I think Celtic can include traditional music, but there is some confusion with the word, because some people use it to mean New Age music, while other people use it as a blanket term for all the traditional musics of the British Isles.
As pointed out, Celtic can also refer to some of the tribes which inhabited this area in anqiquity.
When using the word, you should remember that these tribes far predate Celtic music or Irish traditional music, which is another reason the word can be confusing. Modern Celtic music is not the music of the pre-Christian tribes of the British Isles!–that music is now lost to us forever.
I prefer to be as precise as possible, and say Irish trad when that is what I mean, or New Age when that’s closer to the mark. It just causes less confusion.
In my opinion, although both types of music are very accessible to Pagans, there is nothing intrinsically Pagan about either kind of music, although there have certainly been Pagan musicians who played good music on both sides of that line.
I think at the end of the day, all music belongs to all people, and no one group or culture (or religion) can lay an exclusive claim to any music.
I go to a performing arts high school, and every Wednesday through Friday we have “Celtic Ensemble.” Our teacher calls it that. He sometimes goes as far as to call it “Gaelic” music. I don’t really use the word Celtic because it encompasses too many regions of music that I don’t really play. If I said I played Celtic fiddle, I’d be saying that I played fiddle music from Ireland, Scotland, Wales, Northumbria, Galicia, Cape Breton, Brittany, etc. I prefer to just call it Irish, Scottish, or Cape Breton music, since that is what I play.
The commercial has found a way to associate the word “Celtic” with either kilts, or highland men with swords. Or something similar. But in fact most cultures in Europe originated from cultures of ‘Celtic’.
Just close your eyes and play.
But all in all, I’m really really turned off by Enya. Prefer her songs that are performed by others (IMHO, there’s some by an orchestra, and it sounds nicer than Enya herself, all IMHO.)
(Edited)
[ This Message was edited by: Caoimhin on 2002-10-20 23:10 ]
On 2002-10-20 23:04, whistlingfiddler wrote:
I go to a performing arts high school, and every Wednesday through Friday we have “Celtic Ensemble.” Our teacher calls it that. He sometimes goes as far as to call it “Gaelic” music. I don’t really use the word Celtic because it encompasses too many regions of music that I don’t really play. If I said I played Celtic fiddle, I’d be saying that I played fiddle music from Ireland, Scotland, Wales, Northumbria, Galicia, Cape Breton, Brittany, etc. I prefer to just call it Irish, Scottish, or Cape Breton music, since that is what I play.
This approach is probably the most accurate but it’s a bit of a mouthfull. Calling the music Gaelic probably narrows it down more accuately than ‘celtic’ but doesn’t quite accommodate the fact that Scottish music we’d probably want to include includes Lowland as well as Highland elements athat are not Gaelic. In Australia, New Age stuff is mostly filed as such. What you find under ‘Celtic’ seems mostly, but not exclusively, to be traditional or at least heavily traditionally based.
Never had a problem with the word “celtic”. For me it includes music from Ireland, Scotland, Brittany, Wales and Cornwall; I guess there are attachments like Cape Breton, Galicia, etc. Fine, no worries. After all the word was originally “Keltoi”, coined by the ancient Greeks referring to their northerly neighbours who were the celts of Britain/Eire also at a time when the celts stretched from the Balkans to Eire.
Now, in music shops there’s trad celtic and new age celtic - pretty easy to define the difference really. I guess we’re all (mostly) trad celtic followers.
As far as the mixup goes, it seems to be more when you’re talking to people. E.g., “What kind of music do you play?” “Celtic.” “Oooo…I just love Enya!” (this usually from someone with a crystal around her neck and a bumper sticker that says “My other car is a broom”). That’s why I usually specify “traditional” or even the old-fashioned but still useful “folk music.”
On 2002-10-21 10:33, Redwolf wrote:
As far as the mixup goes, it seems to be more when you’re talking to people. E.g., “What kind of music do you play?” “Celtic.” “Oooo…I just love Enya!” (this usually from someone with a crystal around her neck and a bumper sticker that says “My other car is a broom”). That’s why I usually specify “traditional” or even the old-fashioned but still useful “folk music.”
Redwolf
Interesting point you make using the term “folk music”. Many searches for Irish music come back under “folk music”.
On 2002-10-21 10:33, Redwolf wrote:
E.g., “What kind of music do you play?” “Celtic.” “Oooo…I just love Enya!” (this usually from someone with a crystal around her neck and a bumper sticker that says “My other car is a broom”).
Not all of us pagans with crystals around our necks think Celtic=Enya. Nor do all of us love Enya, for that matter.
On 2002-10-21 10:33, Redwolf wrote:
As far as the mixup goes, it seems to be more when you’re talking to people. E.g., “What kind of music do you play?” “Celtic.” “Oooo…I just love Enya!” (this usually from someone with a crystal around her neck and a bumper sticker that says “My other car is a broom”). That’s why I usually specify “traditional” or even the old-fashioned but still useful “folk music.”
Right on, Redwolf. I went to play a “Celtic Day” at a high school. It was a harper, percussionist and myself-whistle and dulcimer. A teacher introduced us by talking about Celtic music. You could practically smell the incense. She had about 50 bracelets on each arm and talked about how Celtic music was the stuff “we listen to when we relax in our hot tubs.” Cracked me right up.
On 2002-10-21 10:33, Redwolf wrote:
E.g., “What kind of music do you play?” “Celtic.” “Oooo…I just love Enya!” (this usually from someone with a crystal around her neck and a bumper sticker that says “My other car is a broom”).
Not all of us pagans with crystals around our necks think Celtic=Enya. Nor do all of us love Enya, for that matter. >
Andrea ~*~
Thank you, Andrea, for making me not feel like the only one around who doesn’t favor the music of Enya! People I work with refer to her music as New Age?!
I’m beginning to get the feeling that in the USA “celtic” = “new age music”. Over here that’s not the case - generally, if you say “celtic”, people think “Chieftains”, “Irish trad music”, and more recently “Riverdance music”. In short, pretty much what we C&Fers would think of as celtic music. “Music for when you’re in the hot tub”??!! Good grief!
Quote:
“I’m beginning to get the feeling that in the USA “celtic” = “new age music”. Over here that’s not the case - generally, if you say “celtic”, people”
We have lots of people here in the US who enjoy Celtic music. Be they of Irish, Scotch, German, Italian, and many other lineage. The appreciation for the music but not necessarily the history is there.
If we had more exposure of:
Fiona Ritchie hosts radio’s finest Celtic hour, with music from evolving traditions in Ireland, Scotland, North America and beyond. This show comes on NPR
They would certainly loose there tunnel vision of ITM and see the bigger picture of the music of the Celts. She does a very good job of defining the differences and also how much alike the variations are. That said, I am for keeping the traditions alive how ever it can be achieved.
Phil
It’s interesting (and perhaps this is a Santa Cruz thing…I don’t know), but someone mentioned music/CD stores earlier. Hereabouts, if you go to a CD store, if you want to find traditional instrumental music, you look under the country of origin (Ireland, Scotland, etc.). If you want to find traditional vocal music, or a combo of vocal and instrumental, you look under “Folk” (you will find some vocal music under country of origin, but it’s usually not terribly traditional stuff…for example, what you’re likely to find under “Ireland” is actually music hall stuff). If you look under “Celtic,” it’s all “New Age,” with a smattering of Celtic-inspired rock.
This is assuming a general music/CD store (for example, Borders, which has the most complete selection of just about any music you care to name I’ve ever seen in a non-specialty CD store). It would probably be different in a store that specialized in traditional or folk music, but unfortunately there are none of those hereabouts.
Redwolf
P.S. HOT TUBS???!!! That would crack me up too! Hope you launched into a good, fast reel, just to give the lie to that one!
[ This Message was edited by: Redwolf on 2002-10-21 13:22 ]
I guess my hostility to the word “Celtic” originates from its imprecision. It can mean anything these days, thanks to record companies and their marketing people.
It is pretty obvious from history that the pre-christian, pre-Roman tribal people of western europe never thought of themselves as “Celtic”, otherwise they would have had an easier time organizing to fight Caesar.
Mike
