While I appreciate all the efforts from all those folk who have tried to preserve the “traditional” Celtic (Keltic) music (if there is such a thing), it’s important to remember that the Celtic culture is not dead, (as is the that of “Latin”), but rather, it is a living, breathing, collection of wonderful cultures and histories that are being remade even as we speak.
For example, there are more Irish Americans than what had ever been recorded in Ireland itself. The Keltic influence is strong in Australia, in Africa, and even in Japan. It is no small leap of faith to see that these cultures have taken the Keltic influence unto themselves.
I have seen examples of this evolution everywhere I have gone, and I have been in many, many parts of the world. I have started a new website where I try to keep the music “in the traditions of our Keltic Dead” alive with the simple musical instruments like the Keltic whistle and the harmonica.
The miss-use of the word Celtic really gets my goat The Victorians were big on romanticising the Celtic legend; many people’s view of what is Celtic is based almost entirely on this. Whereas many tribes invaded the British Isles as cohesive units, over a definite period of time bringing a strong cultural influence to a specific part of Britain, the Celts dribbled in over a large time span. They came from many different parts of Europe. The Celts that came from Spain would have brought very different influences from those that came through the low countries. The Celts mixed and exchange cultural ideas with many different tribes as they travelled through Europe, so tying down what is Celt is very difficult.
The same thing happens with “Irish Traditional" music. Because so many Irish left (or were ejected from) Ireland to go to the new world, it seems that many Americans think all traditional British folk music is Irish music and that the penny or tin whistle is a Irish instrument - not so! Many English, Scottish and Welsh folk tunes get lumped into ITM. You get the same tunes appearing in the folk traditions of all the British countries, with different names applied. The closeness and interaction of the countries of the British Isles means you should really be talking about British Isles folk music.
And now to get even more controversial, it’s the romanticism of many American’s Irish roots that led so many to bankroll the terrorism of the IRA. To us Brits, the horror of the recent London Islamic bombings and those the IRA did are the same. Innocent men, women and children died in both cases. It’s only since 9/11 that American’s have seen this and stopped running public fundraisers for terrorism waged against Britain by the IRA. I think the lack of support for the IRA in America since 9/11 will be crucial in obtaining a long-term peaceful strategy to the Irish question.
Thats right Mr Grimsdale. Glad to hear you setting Paddy straight
The Celtic cult is far from being only confined to the Irish
in fact they are only a very small part of the whole :roll: its just as the loudest they get most attention
Small story about Norman, whilist on vacation in the I.O.M. we were walking down the main street of Douglus and seeing this fool trying to park this large car. I said to Mr Fipple look at that prat trying ta park that car!!! he said “Thats Norman Wisdom” I replyed Well he sure drives like him. As we pasted the open window of his car he gave us that silly look that he has and a sheepish grin we all went are ways.
It’s always interesting to see how these message boards turn out.
You’re quite right, the “Keltic” whistle is NOT an Irish/Scotts/British instrument, anymore than an bohran, or an accordian, or a harmonica. In fact, I suppose, if history is correct, the Chinese could claim rights to the instrument, as they have uncovered some dating back nearly 10,000 years.
I suppose I was just curious to see how folk feel about the little six hole whistle being closely aligned with “the whistles of the British Isles,” as there are so many other cultures who have them and play them. Not sure how the IRA got into conversation, but I certainly believe, if everyone played whistles, instead of politics, the world would be a much happier place.
People, Shaun makes some pretty darned good copper D whistles. I’ve watched him progress from PVC flutes (which were also quite good) to whistles. The one I most recently played is right up there in quality and sound. Check them out!
I have been under the impression that “Celtic” music is a recent invention. As I understand it’s origin in the 1970s, a group of traditon-oriented musicians among them Johnny Cunningham, recognized the musical similarities running though the tradtional music of Ireland, Scotland and Cape Breton. Further that they organized a series of concerts bringing musicians of these tradtional styles together. Someone coined the term “Celtic” music and it stuck. Now folks are creating original music that blends elements of each of these and other musical heritages. Some of it’s good and some, maybe not so good (at least not to me).
So we have “Celtic” music, Irish Traditonal music, Scottish Traditional music etc. As one consequence, the tradtional music of each of these cultures has a much broader audience than it had in the past.
Being fond of precision this suggests to me that the traditonal music of these cultures has a long and cherished heritage, but that “Celtic” music, while being fine music, does not.
Speaking of tradition, Mr Young, why have you decided to spell Celtic with a “K”?
Granted, it would stop some Americans pronouncing it wrong, but for some reason,
it makes me cringe to see that… Maybe there’s precedent? Maybe I’m just a pedant.
My dictionary calls it a legitimate variation of the word “Celtic”…not that common though..only 99,400 webpages are returned by Google as using that spelling, versus the 8.6 million that use the traditional spelling.
There are definite groups of peoples linked by language and tradition,
from Scotland, to England, to France and Ireland.
Scottish Gaelic, Manx and Irish languages are all very similar.
The musical traditions of these peoples also seem to exhibit cetain common characteristics.
Of course very few musical instruments could be called Celtic.
Certainly the small harp “clairseach” common to Scotland and Ireland
has a very long tradition with these peoples.
Another Instrument with a long history is the Irish uillean pipes.
The bodhrán was an adaptation of a sifting tray to use in dance music,
later to be refined specifically as a frame drum.
The accordion, whistle and other instrument were 18th and 19th century additions.
From an Irish perspective, Celtic music is generally identifiable by its structures,
but more specifically because it “sounds right” or “feels right”.
There is a way of thinking and feeling and a way of communicating which is IMHO Celtic.
It runs through the poetry and literature and well as through the music.
There is a camaraderie between the Scots and Irish, for instance, which is immediate .
I dont blame anyone for sounding off about the IRA and the “gob-shites”
who glorify and support this or any other terrorism in ANY form.
BUT please do not confuse Celtic, Irish or any of the associated culture
or their music with this more recent phenomena.
It is my belief that NATIONALISM, in its political frame,
often leads to war, agression and terrorism, i.e. “Deutschland ueber Alles”
or “Britannia rules the waves” Empire building is another terrorism.
But more than enough of this contentious stuff!!!
Celtic is a feeling. If you feel it you will know what I mean - if you dont, there can be no argument.
Even those who might not have it “in the blood” can sense it in the music and poetry.
I’ll give you the Greek, but there’s no K in Latin. In Classical Latin pronunciation, “C” is always
pronounced hard (like a “K”), despite coming before “E” or “I”, or even “AE”… The C wasn’t
softened until much, much later in British Church Latin, because of the influence of English,
which is why we ended up pronouncing the sports teams wrong (i.e., Boston or Glasgow
Celtics).
When Caeser wrote of the Celts, he used the word “Celti” (the singular nominative form is “Celtus”)
And Thank you Tom Cat. It’s good to be “home” home. The last trip out to Kuwait wasn’t exactly a joy ride. Been a lot places, but that place is definitely not a tourist attraction in my book.
Guess folk are curious about the “K” in Celtic. A few years back (well, O.K., … more than a few years) a group of us misfit Texans were trying set some stages up for a North Texas “Irish” Festival in Dallas, Texas. Back in those days it was ALL done with volunteers. American visitors kept using the “S” for celtic, so we sort of made a deal that we’d use the “K.”
Why? You ask?
Well. Because it’s pronounced with a “K.” It’s NOT the same as the Boston "S"eltics. We got a LOT of that in those days. Most of that crew has departed for other parts, and some have simply departed, but at least we tried.
As Paul mentioned, I really DO love the sound of the … six-hole … style whistle, and I’m somewhat obsessed in trying to make one that has that certain mystery quality in the sound. That’s why I made the “simple” crosswind. Glenn Schulz (God bless 'em) and Paul with his moral support really helped me improve my design for a straight barrel type, and when I finally got a lathe, I’m really happy in how my 4Winds Copper Whistle turned out.
So. That’s why I asked the question to start this message trail going, and I really appreciate this message board from Dale (and crew) in helping all of us … “misfits” … keep the six-hole “whistle/flute” and music that is in the traditions of the Keltic Dead alive.
It really makes me happy that there is still so much interest (and a LOT of strong emotion) about the Keltoi tribes, and glad to know the six-hole whistle will be around for a few more generations to come. Check out my quote in the Keltic Dead Links on my website. I agree with some of the comments that being “Celt” is part of what’s inside of us, and I believe that the six-hole whistle is a key that unlocks that part of us in being what we are, … no matter in what country we live, or what our appearance may be.
Best regards,
The Keltic Dead … with a “K” because why? … That’s the way it SOUNDS. =^)
Aha. Phonetic spelling eh? I’d advise against applying the same philosophy to tunes such as “King of the Clans” and “The Mighty Clansmen”. You never know what might happen.
The Victorians were big on romanticising the Celtic legend; many people’s view of what is Celtic is based almost entirely on this. Whereas many tribes invaded the British Isles as cohesive units, over a definite period of time bringing a strong cultural influence to a specific part of Britain, the Celts dribbled in over a large time span. They came from many different parts of Europe. The Celts that came from Spain would have brought very different influences from those that came through the low countries. The Celts mixed and exchange cultural ideas with many different tribes as they travelled through Europe, so tying down what is Celt is very difficult.
We got a LOT of that in those days. Most of that crew has departed for other parts, and some have simply departed, but at least we tried.