You’ll find old photos from the turn of the century showing u-pipes, fiddles, whistles, etc but not bodhrans. I get a kick out of traditionalists who reject bass fiddle or djembe players but allow bodhrans and low whistles.
If the term Celtic is used to describe the Irish, Scots, Bretons, etc., shouldn’t we be calling the English Anglo-Saxons or Normans, the French Franks, Normans, Celts, Ostrogoths, Visigoths, or Gallo-Romans, the Germans Lombards, Saxons, Allemanni, Angles, Saxons, Burgundii, Visigoth etc, etc… In other words, we don’t use ancient tribal names for people from most countries, so why use it for Ireland, Scotland, etc.?
I understand the desire to lump cultures with similar music under one name, but it seems odd that we use an ancient tribe, found all over Europe, whose music undoubtedly sounded nothing like the traditional Irish or Scottish music we know, for that term.
The Boys of the Lough ran into this early. What type of music does a group play that has players from different locales: Ireland, Shetland, etc? People lumped it all together in their mind and told them they were playing Celtic music. They kept on asking everyone ‘what do you mean by that?’.
Ethnic music seems to have a consistent appeal and calling it Celtic is one way to acknowledge the different players and groups trying to make it happen. ‘Celtic’ helps to expand the pie and the appeal to more than one specific group.
what an interesting theme…spent some years studying the roots and origins of the Celts…as a personal hobby.. the influence is everywhere…and much of it was undoubtadly spread to various lands…IN MoRE RECENT TIMES…by Irish folk , many of whom travelled to escape the famine and unjust landlords…none of this can be denied…no I’m not Irish, just a lover of Irish history…and NO supporter of terrorist activity…I much subscribe to the view though ofTony McGinley…‘Celtic is a feeling’…if youve got it then you know it …A really gooooooood read is 'Pocket History of Irish Traditional; Music byGearoid O hAllmhurain…he mentions many of the influences upon Irish music…seems to me it’s all gone into the melting pot and come out pretty wonderful…I just love it…no matter what folk may label it as…Les.
I thought that was Coke-a-cola?
Philologically speaking, keltoi is a Greek word indicating “foreigner” or “outsider” similar to the latin root for barbarian. The latin word for the people under discussion here is gaul which is closer to what they called themselves. Therefore, the modern form, gael, is the more correct name for the people who brought a distinct culture from somewhere in (what is now) eastern Europe westward through central and western Europe and up through the isles of Britain and Ireland. The one similarity it has with the word ‘celt’ is the likelihood of mispronunciation - ‘gael’ is pronounced more like ‘gal’ than ‘gale’.
(One of the most fun things about this forum is that I finally get to use some of the useless bits of info cluttering up the convolutions of my brain. Man, I gotta get a life.)
Roger
This prompted me to look up Caesar’s De](http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/ptext?doc=Perseus:text:1999.02.0001&query=book%3D1%3Achapter%3D1%3Asection%3D1%22%3E%5Bi%5DDe) Bello Gallico (“Gallic War”)… Here’s what Julius said:
I wonder what “their own language” that would have been. We’re talking mainland Europe
here, so probably not any kind of Proto-Gaelic. Which part of Gaul did these “Celts”
occupy? But, you’re right the word “Celt” was not first used to describe any Irishman.
Funny how that has now been attached (at least in America) exclusively to Ireland.
I don’t know why Julie would say that “Celt” is in “our language”
In The Isles, historian Norman Davies writes:
It is perhaps worth noting that for the purists the ‘Celtic’ label is unacceptable. The modern name for the Celts derives from the classical Greek word > keltoi> , which had the meaning of ‘strangers’ but which was only used by the Greek writers for peoples living in central parts of the Continental interior during the first milennium BC. In its origins, therefore, it did not refer to peoples living further to the north and west, especially in the Isles; and it was not used to describe the Celtic linguistic group as a whole until the era of modern scholarship.
… The Romans, in contrast to the Greeks, used the term ‘Galli’. In retrospect, modern scholars might have been better advised to adopt ‘Gallic’ rather than ‘Celtic’ for the overall label. It is closer to what many of the Celts call themselves, namely ‘Gaels’. But by the time the issue arose, ‘Gallic’ had already been reserved for reference to ancient Gaul, and by extension, to modern France. So ‘Celtic’ stuck. > Only the most pedantic or hostile commentators continue to make an issue of it. > (italics mine)
With that said, I decline to be hostile or pedantic (at least for the moment) so I will make no further issue of it.
Roger
The Bodhrán - Ahhhh yes - - now there is a great deal of speculation about this drum.
Seán Ó Riada certainly made it popular and sparked the refinement of the drum.
However, in the South West of Ireland, West Cork and Kerry,
where Seán Ó Riada lived and where I live,
there is a tradition of “straw Boys” or mummers using a drum
which was actually a primitive sifting tray of skin over a wooden frame.
“A harvesting tool made of animal skin pulled over a wooden frame–
called a “dalloch” by the Scots and a “dallan” by the Irish–
was employed as a sifter for winnowing edible grains from chaff.”
For me, it doesn’t matter where the drum came from -
BUT that it sounds right in the music.
That, IMHO, it cetainly does when appropriately used and well played.
It is the music that matters and even before the music
it is the “feeling” that matters.
If a whistle or a stringed instrument or a drum can evoke the feeling,
then they can become Celtic or Irish instruments.
The Greek Bazouki has been recently adopted into the family
as a child of Irish music.
The music evolves and so does the use of instruments.
Where evolution is much slower is in race memory and
in the wiring of the brain.
The Celtic brain IMHO seems to have a slightly different wiring configuration or programming,
especially when it comes to how people communicate,
in the sometimes caustic sense of humour,
in story telling, poetry and of course in music.
It is this “perception” and/or communication style which,
IMHO tends to define the Celt.
Whatever it is that defines Celtic culture and its music,
one thing is for sure - -
That it has had a really vast influence on the world,
given that Ireland, Scotland, and other Celtic regions
have such tiny populations, and have been largely
isolated regions up till quite recently.
The literature, culture and music is in mega demand world-wide.
Why is this? Could it be that “feeling” (not Coke) 
is perceived by others too?
He didn’t. You misread. “Celt” is in their own language and “Gaul” is in ours (Latin).
(It’s confusing, because the word order is close to the original Latin.)
I’m glad you didn’t argue, I cited the Caesar to back you up.
I was not arguing, but picking your brain: My question was, what language
would the Celts be using to call themselves “Celts”? Occitan?
And, speculatively, would they have just borrowed the term from the Greeks
before Caesar?
It’s very interesting that they Celtic ancients thought it no good to write about their own religious issues.
Then I wonder(not so seriously though) which is the extreme opposite to this belief? Probably Jewish ancients who wrote the Testament?
I am not sure. But I love to think about it. 
Celtic is not a racial tag. It refers to the Celtic branch of the Indo-European language family. The remaining Celtic languages are spoken in Ireland, Scotland, Wales and Brittany. Recently Galicia in Spain seems to have jumped onto the Celtic bandwagon (probably thanks to Paddy Moloney.) Although there may have been some exchange of musical traditions between Ireland and Galicia, the Galician language belongs to the Italic branch.
Mukade
For the edification of the mind concerning all things Gaul I recommend a thorough study of the Asterix and Obelix
publications.
I do not understand a single thing in this thread.
I thought I might have, but when I read about caezer and the garlic wars, I thought for just a moment that I must have been over on my salad forum.
I am a very confused American right now. See, I’m a bit Norwegian (that’s where the name comes from… Christianson), a good deal English, a tad german… and I have one Irish great grandfather. This means I am 1/16th Irish. I learned in Irealand that this means I am actually 0/16ths Irish, 16/16ths American, and probably a lot of bloody English as well. I have to agree.
Now, If celtic is a feeling, then I might be. That would be my only shot at it. I really doubt that as well.
I have an Irish hat that I wear a lot, and I play the whistle, but I play a lot of blues on it, and movie tunes, and I figured out a couple of spanish things, and Native American stuff.
I’m learing “The Star of County Down” right now, so maybe if I play that while I where my Irish hat, and think about My great grandpa, and my trip to Ireland, and Celtic is really about feel, then maybe I can be celtic for a moment.
As you can see, I have no idea what the crappola you guys are talking about. I’m going to go look at more plans for building a PVC flute now. Bono is an idiot.
I understand this very well.
Sounds to me like you already have more of a grasp of what “Celtic” is than most people. i.e Quite mixed up and hard to define. You’re smarter than you think Christianson.
YES = Caustic and biting sardonic wit.
YES = Off the wall communication style,
YES = Mad as a hatter.
YES = Wont give it to say he has any “feelings”.
CONCLUSION = If not Irish - then certainly has Celtic origins.
The whole ‘Celt’, ‘Keltoi’, ‘Gael’ and ‘Gaul’ thing is still bugging me. I just asked our department librarian if she could help me straighten this out. This is a coal-oriented research institute under, but far from the campus of, the University of Kentucky, and I got a strange look for my trouble. However, I think her librarian instincts kicked in and I’ll probably have something in a day or two.
As far as being celtic - I’m of Italian heritage (which means that my people were more likely on the Roman side of the conquest of Gaul) but I like Irish music, beer, whiskey and history, and that’s enough for me.
Roger
Hey Random, why didn’t you enter the gurning competition, you’re a natural!
I’m not sure how to take that. I suppose that it is a compliment coming from the Undisputed Avatar Gurning Champion of C&F; on the other hand, “gurning” and “natural” seem to imply something quite different.
In truth, my avatar is not me; as one astute C&F’er has noted, it is of little Alex as played by Malcolm McDowell in “A Clockwork Orange”
I have never used a self-portrait as an avatar lest my natural proclivity for gurning become painfully apparent.
Roger