The Balanced chanter

You sit down to play… you probably play a bit to warm up the reed before cosidering monkeying with it… then chanter still is not balanced, playing a nice scale in both octaves…

Would any of you share your step-by-step to getting your chanter balanced and in tune in both octaves?

Balancing a GHB chanter is so easy compared to this. I am bad at getting my second octave in tune. I have Skye’s instruction booklet, but it takes me so long to get things straight… then the next day it seems all out of whack again.

I usually start with the A’s – have been using a tuner for this part, but mostly just the tenor drone to see what’s off pitch. I adjust the depth of the reed to make most adjustments – as I would with GHB reed. I find I am needing to tape my back D and my G all the time, sometimes B as well. I am hesitant to fuss much with the reed or bridle, but I do as per Skye’s instruction booklet.

thanks –
Dave Jones

"then the next day it seems all out of whack again.

Welcome to the world of Uilleann Pipes!!!

JD

I tune the drones first, assuming a concert set, I tune them to D using a tuning fork (electronic tuners seem to go wild when it gets dead on and I have found them mostly useless).

Then, against the drones, I check the bottom octave. That is, the back D and hard D, both of which tend to be sharp, then A and F# which are usually dead on. G will sometimes be sharp. I usually use small dabs of poster putty in the top of the holes to flatten the sharp notes down, and in the bell, I use a U shaped piece of plastic and adding enough poster putty to give an easy hard D in tune with the drones.

As far as adjusting the bridle, I like to have my reed opened the minimim amount that I need to get rid of the “autocrann” on hard D (I am puny and need something that blows easily).

If the A and F# tune well against the drones, then I proceed as above. If not, I raise or lower the reed until those two notes come into tune.

Usually all the other notes are OK, but I do have to fill in the bottom 1/2 to 2/3 of the ghost D hole to get the ghost D (very slightly sharper than the back D) and E to come into tune (it usually is slightly flat in the bottom octave but can be pressured up to tune with a slight increase of bag pressure.

The B and C# holes usually need nothing, but in some weather conditions, I have to flatten G slightly.

For getting the octaves in tune, it is a major adjustment of the reed, but after a few attempts, it becomes easy, and only needs to be done once.

If the octave is flat to the drones, you need to insert the staple farther up into the read head, I usually try in incriments of about 1/8" steps.

Bind the top of the reed lips and almost 1/2 the way down the head with some waxed dental floss or cello-tape, then unwrap the string tying the head to the staple.

I make a scratch on the staple at the tail of the head for a reference and slide the staple further into the head and re-tie the head to the staple. Stick it back in the chanter (you will probably have to close the reed slightly) and check and adjust the staple in or out of the head until the octaves are in tune with each other.

If the octave is sharp to the drones, you can either pull the staple out from the head as described above (you will probably need to open the reed slightly), or you can use various sizes of wire (broken guitar strings are good) to stick up into the staple.

Happily, both my chanters (D and C) have well tuned octave Bs but some chanters will have a sharp octave B. You can try rushing the chanter up above the thumb hole, (especially if you have a very sharp back D), or a lump of poster putty on a thin rush placed slightly below the B hole, or perhaps some extra wire folded some near the eye of the staple might bring it into tune.

Some chanters just don’t have something right in their bore to get the B octaves into good tune and you just have to put up with “that one note”. Most chanters end up having one note “that one note” that just can’t be brung into perfect tune.

You just have to “mess around” with it until you find the magic settings (and answer questions from curious people at the same time) that suits your ear.

That’s perfect, thank you.

I still suffer from a flat second octave from time to time. I just don’t want to take the reed apart and move the staple because I have not yet developed any satisfactory skill at reedmaking. However, I don’t seem to be able to make syufficient adjustments by just changing the reed depth.

I am tuning the drones to D using an electric tuner with A set at 440. Perhaps if I set A differently, the relative D would give me a reed depth that would balance the chanter in both octaves?

Thanks -
Dave

Of course you do know that the UP are tuned to just intonation (notes are whole number ratios of frequency of the base tuning so that all notes harmonize) rather than equal temperment (electronic tuning scale in which all keys are equally out of tune), so some notes on the chanter will be “off” according to the tuner when they are actually in tune. A board search should find more discussions on this IIRC.

Quite a few folk tune the A first, then tune the drones to harmonize with it, but I have found this to be about 2 cents flat of standard D. That is perfectly OK too, but I have an easier time with the band tuning to the concertina’s D as that is what the rest of the band uses (Craig’s latest one is dead on with bottom D, slightly flat on the octave, so we use the lower D to tune to).

The only other way I know of to tune the octaves to each other without changing the head/staple volume relationship of the reed (but this flattens the first octave) is to “rush” the whole chanter to make the chanter’s bore smaller. This might result in being unable to tune it up to standard D, but with enough “messing around” with rushes, reed seating, lip opening of the reed and hole filling (or lumps on your chanter rush in the proper place, making notes flatter is easier than sharpening a note, but you may be able to sharpen with a lump in “just the right place” on the rush), you may be able to get it to standard (but just intoned) tuning.

I still believe you would have an easier time fitting the reed to the chanter rather than fitting the chanter to the reed…

If you start making your own reeds, you will soon lose the fear of moving the staple into/out of the head.

YMMV as this is how my chanters respond, I have a Mark Hillmann D (uses a “Godzilla” reed, big and long) and a Seth Gallagher C, each has their own “quirks” and both with “that one note” that ain’t just right (yet?).

I also have a Nick Whitmer D chanter that I am still searching for the right reed design. The Seth Gallagher design is pretty close, but I have 2 notes on it that aren’t “there” yet.

FancyPiper’s Reedmaking Notes

/me wanders off looking for that Concert Reed…

Uilleann D chanter tuning scale relative to an electronic tuner:

http://www.uilleann.org/Reeds.html

Some of Alan Burtin’s quick adjustment suggestions:

http://www.reedshaman.co.uk/

(then look under “Reed Adjustment” at the top)

You can also find some updated reedmaking/adjusting notes on Pat Sky’s page (depending upon when you got your book, I have both the orig. and the updated versions).

:astonished: :boggle: Brian and I had a good discussion/arguement/whatever about tuning a while back, mostly about “tuning up fast”.

:smiling_imp: Since I have a perfect memory (I can forget everything!) I can’t remember who won… :smiley:

Cool avitar, Brian. I gotta find me one.

It was me of course! LOL Naw, just trying to muck with my reeds like everyone else. It’s nice of you have a good solidly tuned instrument like a concertina or fiddle to reference, and while any good electronic will get you close…nothing beats a well trained ear.

Got it! Thanks!

I marked the “spot” on the staple where (today, anyway) everything seems most balanced in both octaves. Nice Ds, nice As, little tape on G and ghost D and I’m good to go.

I liked the tune the drones first method that one person suggested. It makes certain that the chanter is playing on concert D. However, the reed rebuilding that is necessary for this are still daunting to me as I continue to practice reed making. Also, the reed I’m using was made by the pipe maker and I am very hesitant to try to “improve” on his work without any backup reeds.

The process I used involved starting with the A on the chanter and working on the reed depth until both octave A’s played as close to an octave apart as detected using tenor drone to be guide (tuned tenor to low A, checked high A, if different changed reed depth, contionued until matched). Once I got this, the Ds were fine and I found the G needed a little tape and the ghost D. Minor problems with other notes I could control with pressure changes (such as my C# requiring only a very slight pressure). I then tuned the rest of the drones to the tenor and voilà!

Thanks for all help. I printed a lot of good info today. I have ordered a second reed from the pipe maker for backup and continue to practice myself until I get it right.

All the best-
Dave Jones

That is precicely the reason I took two reedmaking classes.

I haven’t seen an acceptable reed from a pipemaker yet (except for a “loaner” from Seth Gallagher)!

Oh, I forgot. David Daye gave me a reed that was great. A student of mine ruined his reed by mouth blowing and I loaned it to him while starting him on reedmaking and I never heard from him again. :frowning:

I should have sent the C chanter reed right back to Seth under warranty as it was balky about sounding anything above octave A.

My trouble was that it sounded so good, I tried to “improve” the reed and since I am getting old and have to use glasses, I didn’t notice that the blades were different thicknesses. Shortly after I made a couple of scrapes down the sides of the reed, the thinest blade broke. I am getting real close on a good reed for it, but I am currently playing a Dickie Deegan reed made in back 1992 (given to me by a dear friend), made for a Geoff Wolfe C chanter, BTW, that is nearly perfect except for the ghost D and a balky octave E. I keep threatening to do a couple of scrapes on that sucker, but I am leaving it alone.

When I get 2 good 'uns of my own make working in it, I want to give it back to my friend.

Now, I need to learn to make regulator reeds… I made a good one out of a failed chanter reed attempt, but I gave that one to my friend and I haven’t gotten around to making some for me due to my current health situation.

Reguarding the c sharp (and c nat), some makers tune for one note, the c sharp, another will tune for the c natural.

To get these into tune, I will “shade” (leave the edge of my index finger on the hole and flatten it into tune) the c sharp hole. If you “shade” it too much, you can play top D at lower octave pressure! Try it and see.

Congrads on getting it tuned.

[
Quite a few folk tune the A first, then tune the drones to harmonize with it, but I have found this to be about 2 cents flat of standard D.

Some good advise there ,but what do you mean by the above , surely if you tune the drones to your A the drones will be spot on D


RORY

no human ear can hear 2 cents flat or sharp, and if you can control your reeds to play within 2 cents of a tone or semi tone ALL the time, I officially name thee SUPERMAN! (or woman!) LOL

Against an equal temp. tuner, the A note SHOULD in fact be 1.96 cents sharp…if you want to go by the numbers…

:laughing: Here we go again with the absolute statements! Compare the hearing of a blind person to a tone deaf person. I think you meant “most” or “the majority” instead of “no”. And I am no super man, quite the opposite, I am about as strong as a marshmallow just now.

Different folks have different hearing ability. I don’t have the hearing of some blind people I have known and tinnitus is starting to show up occasionally (dern construction work without ear protection during high school/college summers).

However, even with these antique ears, I hear a very slow “wow” between A and D if they are tuned “spot on” according to an ET electronic tuner. It sounds “almost right but needs tweaking one way or another”. :stuck_out_tongue:

BTW, try playing pipes under a ceiling fan for an interesting “leslie effect” speaker sound. That drove me nuts once and I spent almost 1/2 hour trying to tune up before I figured out that it might be my ceiling fan.

There are just too many variables with the UP for absolutes to hold true. Each is an individual beast, just as is the player…

YMMV

I forgot to mention previously:

In my experience, when you use a rush to tune a note, it can (and does on all my working chanters) also affect the the 5th below/above quite a bit as well as the octaves of the note.

If you can show me someone who can honestly hear a two cent difference - and more than that, can actually HOLD a two cent difference on their pipes every time they play a note, or tune a drone, I’ll shake their hand profusely and buy them a keg of their choice! LOL I stand by my ‘no’ statement, but perhaps it would sound better to qualify it with ‘no normal human ear’…but then of course, who ever said a piper could be considered normal?! Now we’d just be waxing philisophical. :wink:

I can comiserate about the ceiling fan Leslie speaker effect however. Drove me batty for almost a month when I first started playing pipes in my old apartment. Figured out later what it was. And of course, our pub also has fans above where we session too - so we usually try to turn them off when we play. MOST annoying! :wink:

I doubt (well, I know that I can’t) that I could hold the pitches 2 cents any length of time (but I definately can hear the very slow warble or beat, using two keychain gadgets I have that you can set the note, one to an A, the other to D, then sound them both at the same time. If someone tunes a piano with an electronic tuner and doesn’t do any “ear tweaking” that the good piano tuners do, I can definately hear the beat as well.

To hear it, you will need an almost silent environment (my bedroom is set up as a sound studio using mattresses, quilts, and such stuff padding the walls. I didn’t seem to need to do the overhead though and the room has carpet as well).

BTW, the bathroom and a closet doors can open into that room and I use them to add reverb to recordings when wanted as I think it sounds better than adding it with software.</side track>

Even a computer fan can add enough noise/beats so as to wipe out the knowledge of the source of the beats. In a noisy environment, I tend to ignore and not be aware of the beats, but when recording in a silent room, it seems to keen up your hearing some. I hate recording (it’s no fun at all) and all the retakes, btw, I had much rather just play (once it is out of the chanter, it’s gone) and not be bothered with thinking about sounding good (it is preserved to hear again).

Playing the pipes, of course, I would automatically increase or decrease bag pressure, plus I like the technique of the “slide” up or down to a note. That way you can make the pipes more expressive and “blusey” or “jazzy” sounding.

I attempt to design my reeds to take one pressure for lower octave and a very slightly higher pressure for the 2nd octave.

I do have to change bag pressure for the Es, however, on all chanters I have tried. My Hillmann prefers the “square” design, my Gallagher prefers the sloped shoulder design for the least change in bag pressure.

My padded room seems to work well too - when the nice men in the white coats let me play. :laughing: And I wonder if I could hear the warbles you mention - except that these blasted voices in my head just won’t shut up!

(…be the plam tree…)

ROTFLOL

There are electronic tuners and electronic tuners.
Mostly, the stuff made by BOSS is OK.
But there will be differences in the algorithms for stringed instruments and brass/woodwinds. The Boss TU12H is good for Woodwinds including Uilleann Pipes. AND it will continue to give you a good visual reference of how far you’re off, even after your ears tired a long time ago…

My $0.02
Eivind

[quote=“fancypiper”]I tune the drones first, assuming a concert set, I tune them to D using a tuning fork

Is that not the wrong way around , seeing that is a million times easier to tune the drones to the chanter would it not be easier in the long term to get the chanter in tune with itself at 440 and then when you begin your session just tune your drones to your chanter which should take no more than a minute or two .If you have a good reed -chanter combination the chanter shouldn,t be out to much and may only need warming up

RORY

Besides just a quick warm up and maybe some adjusting to current temperature and humidity, how much messing around with reeds do you folks normally go through before playing?

Also, how many of you have a reed set such that the A’s are at 440, chanter plays a nice scale both octaves, and there is no tape on any hole?

Dave Jones