CP Reyburn Whistles

Whistle
1

I have been diligently working these last few months to expand my line to include more aluminum alloy whistles. I’ve been very happy
with the results of the aluminum alloy Low D so have now added to my line the keys of Low G, Mezzo A, Mezzo Bb, Hi Session C
and most importantly the Hi Session D in aluminum alloy. The tone of the aluminum is very rich and a bit darker compared to the brass
I have been using and has come to be my material of choice.

I’ve been working with Dave Hanger who has been my beta tester for the new instruments and our own Pancelticpiper who has tried out the Mezzo A
and Bb. Dave is an excellent whistle and fiddle player who plays at our Sunday session at the Black Sheep here in Ashland and is also a piano tuner so has a very critical ear.

It has been very helpful for me to hand my latest instruments to Dave and stand back and listen from the perspective of other players to hear how they blend in, so many thanks Dave for your contribution. Also many thanks to Pancelticpiper for your input on the Mezzo A and Bb.

I want to express my appreciation for the Chiff and Fipple message board to be able to keep abreast of players needs and wants so I can make adjustments to my instruments to satisfy these needs. Making whistles has given me very satisfying work and I find it to be a wonderful meditation.

Keep on whistlin’ and thanks for enriching the world with your music.
Ronaldo
www.reyburnwhistles.com

2

What type of tuning slide are you using on the new whistles? Teflon tape like the alloy Low D or something like you brass whistles have?

3

I just purchased the new Reyburn aluminum alloy A and B flat whistles, and am very happy with them. They both use the same tube size so you can use one mouthpiece, and just switch bodies. Ronaldo says the teflon tape works best with the aluminum, but I bought a separate mouthpiece for both. I’ve been session playing for around 40 years, and own several A whistles by top makers. The Reyburn is now my favorite. All 17 notes play effortlessly, the rich overtone structure makes for a beautiful tonal quality, the intonation is excellent, the dynamic range is good for a whistle, the workmanship is superb, and it’s nice and light. Also, I’ve been using Reyburn’s heavy wall brass high D whistle for over a decade, a fantastic instrument, but I just tried out his new aluminum high D and it’s even nicer by a slight bit in my opinion. Everything I said about the A and B flat goes for the high D as well. When my budget recovers from purchasing the above mentioned A and B flat, I might have to get one. It uses the same tube diameter as his high C and can also be switched with the same mouthpiece. Whether you play in a large noisy pub session or a small intimate performance, if you’re looking to upgrade to a really top notch whistle, my recommendation is the new Reyburn aluminum alloy in whatever key you prefer.

Cheers,
Honker

4

Trekkie, the tuning slide is internal to the outside diameter of the tube so the whistle is sleek in appearance (Like the Low D). The inside of the head tube is bored and the outside of the body tube is turned down with a teflon tape interface. This allows the player to wrap the tape according to their preferred slide tightness and it will never get stuck as the brass on brass slide sometimes does.

Ronaldo
www.reyburnwhistles.com

5

Yes I’ve played Ronaldo’s new A/Bb combo.

With Reyburns you know what you’re going to get: perfect tuning, smooth voicing, a full round low range, and above all that distinctive tone I’ve not heard elsewhere.

This A/Bb also had a nice sweet upper range, which is something that’s important to me.

It’s so interesting about the tone. I usually want to keep only one whistle in each key, but I’m playing four Low Ds: MK, Goldie, Lofgren, and Reyburn.

Each has things it does better than the others. Without a doubt the standout in the matter of tone is the Reyburn. I call it the “Native American Flute in the fog” sound. Despite having that foggy aspect, it’s surprisingly beefy, and has more presence, or body, than the MK. The MK though loud and gravelly and dirty still is somehow more thin in tone than the Reyburn.

6

Wow! Ronaldo Reyburn came by our local Celtic session on Sunday with his latest, and I reckon final, version of his aluminum high D whistle for a few of us to try out, so I got to hear others play it in the session as well. Very impressive! It has stronger lower partials (overtones) for a richer sweeter tone and even better projection than his heavy-wall brass high D that I’ve been using and loving for the past decade, and the aluminum is lighter in weight. I had tried his beta version last month, and loved it (see my post above), and the only change in this final version that I can hear is that the highest notes are a bit sweeter. The lower octave is nice and strong. Get yourself one of these and you’ll likely put whatever else you’ve been using in the drawer.
Sincerely,
Honker

7

When I first started making whistles over 18 years ago, I was drawn to using the “Just Temperament” system of tuning as it sounded and played more easily and beautifully compared to “Equal Temperament”. Even thou I offer instruments tuned using the “Equal” system, my default tuning remains the “Just” system.

Many players are unaware that other systems of tuning even exist so I”d like to bring some clarity to this issue.
Wikipedia defines musical temperament as the following:
“In musical tuning, a temperament is a tuning system that slightly compromises the pure intervals of just intonation to meet other requirements. Most modern Western musical instruments are tuned in the equal temperament system. Historically, the use of just intonation, Pythagorean tuning and meantone temperament meant that such instruments could sound “in tune” in one key, or some keys, but would then have more dissonance in other keys.”

It is precisely this dissonance that is a problem for me. People have adjusted to this dissonance that occurs in “Equal” tuning which is necessary for keyboards or instruments that are fretted such as guitars, mandolins, etc. as the notes are used for all of the various keys. One can visually see and hear this dissonance portrayed on this site…https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6NlI4No3s0M.

Since a whistle is key specific and is generally played in one of 3 keys, for example a D whistle which is usually played in D, G or Em, the “Just” system works very well. When I tune my instruments (in “Just”) I tune the Cnat to fit the “Just” scale relative to the key of G using the two fingered position which most players prefer. This offers two keys that play with a pure tone scale and no dissonance. The Em scale works well for me also.

I have recently introduced instruments to my line made of aluminum alloy and worked hard to offer them in “Equal Temperament” even thou that is not my preferred tuning. The Soprano Session D which has been the most sought after key has been the most challenging key for me. I have been taking versions of them to the Sunday session here in Ashland for my “Beta tester” to try out and listen to how they blended with the rest of the players and how they played.

After 4 different versions failed the test, mainly due to more pressure needed to hit the upper notes of the second octave (making it louder than it should be) which caused shrillness, edginess and generally a dissonance in the tone which was irritating and uncomfortable to everyone in the session, I’ve let go of the “Equal” tuning approach. I sat next to a mandolin player and asked him how he liked the latest version and he said it was too shrill in the upper octave. I was concerned that a “Just” tuned scale would not fit well with the other instruments but wanted to try it anyway.

So last week I brought in a Soprano Session aluminum D tuned to “Just” and it played so easily (by 2 players) and blended so beautifully with even the mandolins and guitars that my concerns were put to rest. Needles to say, the fiddlers had a very happy face when they heard this instrument. The whistle is the one mentioned in the previous post by Honker. So for players who think they want an “Equal” tuned instrument for Celtic repertoire, I highly recommend the “Just” scale (my default tuning) for the easiest playing and most beautiful sounding whistle I make.

Thanks to all who play my instruments.
Ronaldo
http://www.reyburnwhistles.com

8

The differences between Equal Temperament and Just Intonation sound fascinating. Would it be at all possible to put up sound samples of one of your Hi-Ds with each of those set ups for comparison?

Also, you mentioned that a whistle with Just intonation was able to meld well (even better than Equal) with other instruments on a session, but what happens if there are other whistles/flutes in the session that are set to Equal? Would it cause dissonance?

9

After 4 different versions failed the test, mainly due to more pressure needed to hit the upper notes of the second octave (making it louder than it should be) which caused shrillness, edginess and generally a dissonance in the tone which was irritating and uncomfortable to everyone in the session, I’ve let go of the “Equal” tuning approach. I sat next to a mandolin player and asked him how he liked the latest version and he said it was too shrill in the upper octave. I was concerned that a “Just” tuned scale would not fit well with the other instruments but wanted to try it anyway.

So last week I brought in a Soprano Session aluminum D tuned to “Just” and it played so easily (by 2 players) and blended so beautifully with even the mandolins and guitars that my concerns were put to rest.

For some reason that sound somewhat counter intuitive: Equal tempered whistles would have their high B tuned slightly higher than those in Just intonation which really means that they shouldn’t be harder to blow to hit the right note, in fact one would expect players not used to Just intonation to hit their notes harder because (a) their ears are used to the higher pitch of some of the ET notes and will try hit the higher pitch or (b) they try to adjust to ET instruments in the mix.

In my experience playing (wind) instruments involves a constant (subconscious) adjusting the playing to what the ear is hearing. For example I find checking my scales of even my most ET instruments (eg Sindt) against a tuner do in fact come out as very close Just intonation. A lot of it rest with the driver.

Overall I believe the whistle is best tuned somewhat away from ET but at this stage I am not quite sure a full Just intonation of a D scale is the best way to go either, there has to be some allowance/compromise to accommodate other scales.

10

Shalis, I’m in process of getting a sound clip up on my site and will post when it’s up.

In answer to your question…”what happens if there are other whistles/flutes in the session that are set to Equal?” It depends on the whistle or flute. I’ve not tried a lot of other makers instruments but generally the ones I have tried have had flat second octave upper notes. I believe this approach is taken to bring the scale in tune with itself (pure tone).

The prototype whistles I made with a precisely tuned scale (relative to Equal temperament) sounded harsh, piercing and out of tune to my ear. This shows up, I believe, more in the upper octave as the ear is more sensitive to higher frequencies. So this flat tuning of the upper octave by some makers brings it closer to “Just” temperament as the B note in a “Just” scale is 14 cents flat of an “Equal” tuned scale and the C# note is 12 cents flat.

As I mentioned earlier in this thread this dissonance in an “Equal” tuned scale can be easily heard and graphically seen on the site I listed above.
Mr. Gumby if I tried to hit those upper notes (B and C#) on the “Equal” tuned version it was necessary to increase pressure to keep them from falling back to the first octave which makes them play too loud. I attempted to soften those notes with perturbations which helps a lot but doesn’t compare to the “Just” scale which flows much more smoothly and with a better balance volume wise.

As I mentioned above the “Just” tuned version blended wonderfully with all of the instruments in the session, including guitar and mandolin. Go figure!

Ronaldo
www.reyburnwhistles.com

11

I can understand equal tempered notes sounding harsher, especially b. I don’t understand the mechanism that would require a hole tuned to ET to be blown stronger. Did you move the hole up a bit or did you enlarge it to get at ET tuning? I can even think of a situation where someone tuning a hole blew it a bit harder in front of the tuner so it looked in tune, only to realise later the note had to be hit harder to be in tune at ET at the cost of a harsher sound.

12

Mr. Gumby, what I have come to understand over these past 18 years of making whistles regarding the acoustics is that when notes are in resonance with each other they support each other. Meaning that they speak easier and play louder with less breath pressure. When they are not in resonance the tones tend to degrade the sound quality and it lacks clarity.

If one can visualize a tone (say a fundamental) on an oscilloscope represented by a sine wave, each succeeding tone if in resonance will cross the center line at the same place and of course have more cycles within the fundamental cycle for each note. When they do not cross at the same place, instead of a pure tone the notes beat against against each other and sound edgy as in “Equal” tuning. And as most of us know the “Equal” scale is merely an approximation of a fit between notes so they can be used for all keys.

Not the best situation I’ll admit. But for keyboards and fretted instruments this is the suitable option that has been adopted and our ears have become adjusted to the intervals. But for whistles which are key specific the scale can be perfectly tuned relative to the fundamental. I’m sure most of you are aware that some of the period pieces played on harpsichords we tuned in “Just” or “Pythagorean” tuning just for that particular piece to satisfy the composer.

So my sense is that what makes the whistle tuned to “Just” play so beautifully is that this resonance I have just described, eases the transition between notes and they play with less effort due to the alignment of the overtones and play with a slowly increasing pressure. It is when they are out of resonance that they need extra pressure for the notes to make the jump which ends up sounding too loud and edgy.

When I stand back and listen to how the “Just” tuned whistle in a fairly large session fits so well and can be heard even on the bottom end, I have to recommend to my customers to go with “Just Temperament” which has been my recommendation for all these years.

I could be wrong about all of this… but the end result seems to justify my view.

Ronaldo
http://www.reyburnwhistles.com

13



I generally regard Equal Temperament as a convenient abstraction, rarely observed in the real world. If you listen carefully to a violinist tuning up, you’ll hear them tuning to perfect (Just or Pythagorean) fifths, not Equal Temperament fifths. Even with pianos, the tuner may aim for Equal Temperament, then go through the scale “tempering” the notes to make chords sound more “right”. I suspect good guitarists and mando players do something similar.

14

Ronaldo,
I acquired a Reyburn whistle on loan way back when we were beginners.
I was invited to set up my table at a local historical museum unaware that fourth graders from schools around the valley would be visiting.
None of mine could be heard but yours which fortunately I had along rose above the din and got their attention. I think it was a black head on brass barrel somewhat like my Blacktop but oh what a difference!
Mack

15

Mack, Thanks for remembering that museum experience and your kind words about my instrument.

I’m still making similar instruments with lots of improvements… Delrin head with brass body and have now branched out to include aluminum, which of course is what this thread is all about. I’ve heard great things about your instruments thru the years and I’m happy to hear you’re still at it.

keep up the good work Mack
Ronaldo

16

I could be wrong about all of this… but the end result seems to justify my view.

I fully agree on the sweetness of Just or just not equal tempered instruments so no need to justify that thought to me. I was just trying to understand the notion that an equal tempered hole would need more wind. In all fairness I can hit a high B in ET on say, a Sindt or a Killarney without it going particularly harsh although holding slightly back and having the note fit in a more tempered scale would have it sound that bit sweeter, although that is arguably more a matter of tuning than of tone.

I realise for harmonic content of a note size and placement of a hole is crucial although arguably with a cylindrical tube there’s always going to be a set of compromises to maintain playability. And yes, I did briefly reviit the relevant chapter in Benade today.

I do note most whistles today still follow the hole patterns set by the early makers of mass produced whistles. I have long since embraced the notion that the people who designed and made this type of whistle were no fools, they knew well what they were doing.

I do have some whistlemaker’s experimental tubes tubes that attempted to sweeten the octaves while maintaining tuning by playing with hole size and placement. I don’t think they went into the mainstream but they do show there is some room to maneuver although as with all these things, it’s a matter of compromises.

Below, experimental tube with nickel Feadóg tube for comparison:

I best leave it at that, thanks.

17

Mr. Gumby, my sense, at this point in the discussion, is that the voicing of the instrument comes into play (fipple design). When I look at a Generation type head, which includes all of the less expensive instruments that I have seen and at least 1 of the more expensive instruments (like Sindt) there is a departure in design.

And this departure which I have been using for many years (based mainly on the Overton design) strengthens the bottom end and enriches the tone. But it also changes the volume of the bore which I know from experimentation greatly affects the pressure needed to play the upper octave. So again there is a trade off of what you get in making a whistle. Stronger bottom end and more pressure to play the upper end. For me I have chosen to go with stronger bottom end and used the “Just” system to balance the pressure requirements.

it all comes to personal preference in what a player likes.

Thanks for all the questions in this thread… makes for interesting stuff.

Ronaldo
http://www.reyburnwhistles.com

18

On whistles, you know what the difference between a Equal Temperament and Just Intonation whistle is?

Two pieces of electrical tape.

The only two notes where the difference between ET and JI isn’t negligible are F# and B, and those are only 15 cents lower for JI than ET. (Yes I know it’s 14 and 16 cents, whatever.) A piece of tape on Hole 2 and Hole 5 and voila! you have a JI whistle.

I can’t see how the tiny difference in hole position and/or size of Hole 2 that 15 cents requires would have a significant impact on volume, timbre, or air consumption of that note vis-à-vis hole 3 (A).

Anyhow of course a mandolin will be ET.

With the uilleann pipes B in the low octave will usually be around it’s JI point, but B in the 2nd octave will be considerably sharper, usually at or above the ET point. (A difference of 20-30 cents is common.)

I had a Burke Low D that did just that! It was the perfect whistle for playing in tune with pipers.

19

Interesting pancelticpiper!! I’m assuming my Goldies are all ET. Then given that Colin has a reputation for accurate tuning, if I wanted to experiment with with JI and how it sounds, how would I know how much of the two holes to cover with electrical tape?

20

With the uilleann pipes B in the low octave will usually be around it’s JI point, but B in the 2nd octave will be considerably sharper, usually at or above the ET point. (A difference of 20-30 cents is common.)

Which doesn’t mean to say it’s right ofcourse. Or that it’s unavoidable or that all chanters are like that.

Two pieces of electrical tape.

Or playing it by ear and playing the note where (you think) it should be. Which I more or less said above.