Hello! I’ve been learning a lot with my Susato high D. Very enjoyable. I’ve a question, though. After I tune the low D, the notes seem to get flatter as the higher notes are played, most prominent in the high register. Blowing harder helps this, but not enough to correct it. I’ve read that some folks consider this part of the charm of the Whislte
How close in tune should a whislte be with itself? Thank you and best regards.
Mike
Not sure i understand the problem correctly.. You mean you tune the bottom D to pitch and when doing so, the higher notes are out of tune?
My whistles are very close to perfect tune with themselves.. I also find it easier to tune to the first A , also playing a run of notes, “landing” on the A for tuning check helps me.
All parallel bore flutes have that problem. The Susato is no different from others, except that being loud to begin with, your efforts to correct second-octave flattening will make it louder than anyone would want unless they’re playing in a samba band.
As Jack says, that’s what you get with a cylindrical bore instrument. When I know most of my playing will be in the second octave, I tune to the upper G (i.e. 3 fingers down). If playing “normally”, I tune to the lower “G” and let it be slightly sharp. As a side note, I play whistle in church occasionally and usually play mostly in the upper octave without a mic.
Pat
To be precise, the second octave is flatter in uniform bore instruments, not just in cylindrical bore instruments. A conical bore whistle that tapered uniformly from fipple to end would still have the problem. And the second octave is flatter because we like to blow lower-register notes relatively harder (closer to the break to the upper register) and upper-register notes relatively softer (closer to the break to the lower register). As you’ve noticed, we can correct this by blowing harder in the upper register, but that introduces its own problems.
The instrument designer can compensate for this by having a different taper at the mouthpiece end than the main body. Clarke whistles (and recorders) that narrow toward the end have a more cylindrical bore near the mouthpiece. Concert flutes with a cylindrical body have a bore that gets narrower toward the embouchure hole. Oboes with a flaring conical bore have an even steeper taper toward the reed. You get the idea…
I play a number of cylindrical bore whistles (Abells, Susatos, Gens, Chieftains, etc) and I’m not noticing
any internal tuning anomalies. I don’t know what’s actually going on in the bore. I’ve been at it for
quite awhile and played in ensembles, so I don’t think it’s my ear.
It’s possible that the top of the second octave is very slightly flat
on the Susatos, but not enough to matter. I suppose as long as it works with other instruments
it’s good enough. However I can’t speak for the Susato D, not playing it. I do use the Susato
C a great deal (busking); also sometimes the Bb. My suggestion is to forget about it unless
it is problematic playing with others. The greatest problems I have tuning wise have
been with conical whistles.
Instead of overblowing the upper register, try underblowing the lower register. Seriously, and voilà. 
Also, the O-ring tweak may make the upper notes of the Susato speak more easily, and reduce the temptation to overblow them.
http://forums.chiffandfipple.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=50113&start=0
You didn’t say if you were using an electronic tuner. If you’re using an electronic tuner, play around awhile and you’ll see that when you adjust a whistle you have plenty of wiggle room to still blow flat, sharp, or right on the mark.
I recall reading something from someone who seemed to know what he was talking about that undercutting notes would impact the second octave more than the first. He was specifically writing about undercutting the tone holes on a susato whistle to bring the second octave into tune with the first. Sounds interesting, but I’ve never done it.
The thing is … When played properly, Susato intonation is spot-on as-is without surgery.
I suppose that’s true of any whistle, if you include infinite breath control as part of the definition of “properly.”
Maybe there’s something wrong with my whistles, but the intonation on my Mellow Dog is way closer to spot-on than my Susato D, and they’re nothing at all alike from an intonation standpoint.
Hello! Thank you for your replies. I’m tuning the whistle to the low D using 440 on my electornic tuner. The high register then is flat on the tuner. Its not as noticeable to my ear as it might be on my violin (? the notes are more shrill?) With hard blowing, I can sharpen the top register notes, but not enough to bring them into tune according to my electronic tuner.
Tuning the whistle to the G might be the best compromise.
Is this one thing that is corrected with high-end whisltes? Best regards.
Mike
To be precise, the second octave is flatter in uniform bore instruments, not just in cylindrical bore instruments.
I have often wanted to post this, however I only have math and experience with cylindrical whistles to go on, so I have kept quiet - some day I thought I will try a conical whistle, test my math and consider posting The math is the same for both conical and cylindrical bores. I suspect that most conical whistles are not uniform but become cylinders at the top which would tend to sharpen the upper octave. The equivalent is done with modern cylindrical flutes - the bore tapers in at the top. And the bore of a cylindrical whistle can be modified in various ways (meaning it can be in more than one way) to tune the top octave as well.
I’m tuning the whistle to the low D using 440 on my electornic tuner. … Tuning the whistle to the G might be the best compromise.
I think it usually best to tune the instrument to some note in the middle of its first octave - an A or G - unless one of those is problematic, but tuning is a relative thing so it might be best at times to tune in second octave at times or some other note depends on who/what you are playing with and tune and…
Is this one thing that is corrected with high-end whisltes? Best regards
Well it should be - and certainly some are better, I have played some that are fine, and the whistles I make are fine in this regard. And remember what is better may depend on one’s preferences, style of playing or what you are used to, there is no one right answer.
Also consider that IMHO electronic tuners do not always agree with the human ear as to what is in tune (to my ear and others). And then there is the just v. equal v. whatever scale. Quite the can of worms.
I agree that it’s more realistic to tune your whistle to G rather than the low D.
Whistles and other fipple flutes have a large leeway in tuning. Every note will respond more or less to increases and decreases of breath pressure and attack. As you play your whistle more, you’ll mysteriously find it playing more in tune with itself and other instruments.
Don’t get too hung up with perfect tuning. Despite what your tuner says, if you can’t hear the difference while you’re actually playing tunes, don’t worry about it. The simplicity of the whistle makes it far from perfect, and it’s not realistic to expect it to be. Pick it up and just play it.
People swear they’re not, but electronic tuners are very often out of tune. A couple of years ago, a craze for electronic tuners swept through the denizens of my local session. Three people in particular were horrendously out of tune (not having been so before they bought their tuners). I just assumed that they were using their tuners incorrectly. After a while, I couldn’t stand it any more, so I grabbed each of them and tuned three instruments myself to the three different tuners. They were way, way apart.
More recently, a conductor handed me a tuner at the start of a rehearsal for a show, as the A was to be taken from my fiddle. I tuned to the tuner, and both myself and the conductor agreed that the result was way flat. So I just tuned to the A that I always carry around in my head. We were both happy with that.
Don’t rely on tuners would be my message.
[And no, I can’t remember what make any of the said tuners were.]
I just tuned to the A that I always carry around in my head
… tinnitus? 
The batteries never go flat in my tuning fork … had it for years 
No tinnitus fortunately. I always have tunes going round in my head, and they’re pretty much always in tune. Plus, as soon as I pick up my fiddle, I can hear the ‘A’ before I play it. So I know when it’s in tune. It’s not proper ‘perfect pitch’ but it’s kind of useful, even so.
And a tuning fork is much preferable to a tuner, in my book. A very useful tool.
I think it’s also a matter of voicing - if the windway is shallow and tapers vertically towards the exit, the tone tends to be more stable and hence the instrument is easier to play in tune (assuming that the maker has tuned it accurately in the first place). If the windway has a constant vertical section, then the tuning is more subject to variation in breath pressure/speed. At least, that’s my observation from the recorders and whistles I play.
My Rose and Goldie play perfectly in tune with little effort, whereas the Ormiston and Bleazey require a bit more work, but after a while it does indeed become automatic.
As for which note to tune to, I find that an in tune Cnat (with either the oxxooo or oxxxoo fingerings, depending on the instrument) is a good indicator of how in tune the whistle is as a whole. But again, that’s just me.
That’s really interesting. Were the three different tuners different brands?
I notice that the specs on most tuners indicates they are accurate to +/- 2 cents, which is certainly an audible difference. If one was +2 and another was -2 you’d have 4 cents between them.
In the pipe band world, Korg tuners are ubiquitous. They seem to be extraordinarily consistent, one to the next. Very useful for getting all our drones going on the same frequency as the chanters.
I also have a Peterson virtual strobe tuner, which is guaranteed accurate to 0.1 cent. It has pre-sets for ET, just, and several “sweetened” guitar tunings, and it’s also programmable for arbitrary tuning systems, which is handy for highland pipe chanters. When I test whistles I typically set it to just tuning and put the root of the scale on the lowest note of the whistle, and then adjust the frequency setting until to get the most notes the most in tune. From there I can see if the whistle is tending to be sharp or flat in general, and which notes are most out. I always play a bit of a tune and stop on the note I want to test.
I have noticed that in some circumstances electronic tuners have difficulty locking onto a note, and “listen” to harmonics instead. This might be the problem you encountered in the anecdote above. One of the really nifty features of the Peterson tuners is they tell you the note pitch and the octave that they think they’re hearing. For example, when I play a D on my pipe chanter sometimes it thinks it hears an A. It’s pretty common for it to hear my bass drone an octave higher than it is. Occasionally it hears the bass an octave lower than the fundamental, which is really curious. It always seems to hear whistles accurately (wrt which note it reports locking onto).
I don’t much use tuners but certainly when it comes to flute they are all over the place.
Yes, definitely tune to a first octave A or G. But tuners are often off when the flute is in tune
(they are picking up harmonics or whatever) and what matters is how the instrument
sounds. So if the instrument is in tune at A or G but a bit flat on low D or sharp on
high B or whatever, I wouldn’t much care (that’s typical) unless it creates some audible problem
in playing. Otherwise you have a brilliant recipe for driving yourself crazy,
at least with flutes and probably whistles.
Summing up what others have said, IMO.