I have found that it is much easier to check the tuning of a pennywhistle against tones that are known to be correct than it is to use a tuner.
To make this method easier, I created a set of sine waves with the correct frequencies to correspond with the notes of a soprano D pennywhistle.
I archived these tones and uploaded them to my WEB space so anyone interested could download a copy.
The archive consists of the individual tones from 1st octave D up to 3rd octave D, C natural, G sharp, and a complete 2 octave D scale.
Each tone is 10 seconds long, and may be looped if more time is needed.
The 2 octave D scale is 2 munutes and 30 seconds long, whth each tone lasting 10 seconds.
You may download your copy here</a](http://webpages.charter.net/raindog1970/Soprano_D_Pennywhistle_Tones.zip>here</a)>.
[ This Message was edited by: raindog1970 on 2001-10-11 19:08 ]
Raindog,
since you have generously offered this, perhaps you could explain the real world benefits of applying this to our whistles…are you suggesting we re-tune our whistles or what?:-? Mike
On 2001-10-11 17:21, Bobj wrote:
Whats the difference between an inverted sine wave and a regular sine wave? 180 phase shift? Whats the benefit? Sorry if I’m being dense…
And what is your web address - I hesitate to download an executable file from a stranger these days - my paranoia meter is pegged!
I made the archive a self-extracting ACE file because the compression ratio is twice that of the common ZIP file, and because self-extractors require no decompression software to be installed on the recipiants computer.
I do understand your concern, but any antivirus software would have confirmed that the file was clean.
Since I’m sure you weren’t the only person hesitant to download the file because it was an executable, I substituted it with a ZIP archive.
Sorry to all of you who might not know how to extract a ZIP archive… you’ll just have to take a crash course in ZIP files if you want to use my tuner.
I got ambitious tonight and created a set of soprano C pennywhistle tones.
This archive is a ZIP file just like I converted the soprano D set to, so nobody should have any worries about downloading it.
Download your copy here</a](http://webpages.charter.net/raindog1970/Soprano_C_Pennywhistle_Tones.zip>here</a)>.
I hope you find these sets useful… or at least somewhat interesting.
Maybe I’ll eventually do a high G set that could double as an ultrasonic pest repeller!
For those of you who haven’t yet downloaded a copy of my “alternative whistle tuner”, I’m bringing this thread back to life.
I will be removing the files from my web space shortly to make room for other things… so act fast if you want to download a copy!
These tone sets really are quite useful for anyone who would like to check the tuning of their whistle… and they’re free!
Get `em while they last!
Raindog,
Bobj and myself asked Questions that went unanswered in your original post sometime back and as you have now given yourself a second chance…Peace, Mike:)
On 2001-11-11 03:57, mike.r wrote:
Raindog,
Bobj and myself asked Questions that went unanswered in your original post sometime back and as you have now given yourself a second chance…Peace, Mike:)
Well, I did remove the reference to the sine waves being inverted so as to avoid any more confusion… and of course Bobj was right, it was just a simple phase shift.
To me, the inversion makes the tones easier on the ears.
As for his paranoia about the original executable, I did address the issue and changed it to a ZIP file.
For anyone still paranoid, the contents of the ZIP files are nothing more than a few small MP3 files… there’s absolutely no danger in downloading and using them.
As for your question… it’s a whistle tuner Mike, no rocket science is required to figure out what to do with it.
Those who know how to tune a whistle can use it to tune their whistles.
Those who don’t know how to tune a whistle can use it to check the tuning of their whistles against perfect pitched tones… so it’s an educational tool if nothing more.
‘Just temperament’ is a way of tuning that uses the natural intervals of the notes as opposed to ‘even temperament’, which is a compromise devised to make instruments like the piano or the accordeon play in different keys and is more a compromise between requirements that brings and the value the notes would have otherwise. Most electronic tuners will give you a value in ‘equal temperament’. It’s quite an issue in tuning instruments and very much worth thinking about.
[ This Message was edited by: Peter Laban on 2001-11-11 20:12 ]
Thanks Peter,this is really interesting and I’d forgotten about this aspect of tempered tuning and I would guess just temperament is often wrongly referred to as perfect tuneing, or is it something different?You also mentioned most tuners…Ive never seen anything other than the type you mentioned,does one exist for equal temp.and if so, how does it work? Mike
[ This Message was edited by: mike.r on 2001-11-11 16:01 ]
There is a lot of discussion about this among concertinaplayers and even more some corners of the piping community (the pipes are my first instrument really.
For the pipes it is most important as every note on the chanter the chanter has to play a perfect harmony with the drones (now, not all pipes are tuned the right way and that’s why they sound so rotten sometimes )
Now I can imagine it making a good bit of difference on the whistle (personally I buy a cheap one off the shelf and play it, I am not bothered filing out the holes or anything). So if you guys start working on re-tuning the instrument, it is interesting to know what you are doing.
Some of the more expensive electronic tuners will give you several scales and different modes, a standard tuner is OK as well, only you will have to know exactly where (i.e. how much cents sharp or flat)to tune each particular note to get the best result.
“[Rain Dogs] …the ones you see wanderin’ around after a rain. Ones that can’t find their way back home. See the rain washes off the scent off all the mail boxes and the lamposts, fire hydrants…”
Tom Waits
[ This Message was edited by: raindog1970 on 2001-11-11 23:09 ]
Peter, you’ve brought up some interesting issues around temperament. These have been concerns of mine for some time and I am offering whistles tuned in both “Equal” and “Just” temperament. As a solo instrument I find the “Just” tuning to be far superior due to the fact that the partials (overtones) are in alignment with one another. However, when this instrument is played with a fretted instrument, or piano, or other instrument that is tuned to “Equal” temperament then some of the notes beat against each other and tend to degrade the tone instead of support it.
So depending on what type of instrument I’m playing with, I select the instrument tuned to that particular temperament. By the way a fiddle player will probably love to jam with you in “Just”, or for that matter a vocalist. For those of you who are new to this temperament issue “Just” temperament is key specific. All of the notes are ratios of the fundamental and so when one changes the fundamental those same notes may not work in the new key. So what I’m saying is a C is not a C with the same frequency in all keys. It sometimes varies by as much as 15 or so cents. And as Peter has pointed out, this means that in “Equal Temperament” an average has been reached that will work for all keys, not perfect for any particular key, but one that will work for all keys.
Ronaldo
Wow!my head is spinning with all this great info but still uncertain how just temperament can apply to whistles considering breath requirement differences in both octaves and the general cylindrical bore issues which Thomas Hastay has in the past talked about at length.I find that the 2nd oct bell note on a soprano D is usually more sharp than the 1st oct, and 2nd oct A B & C# are more flat than in the 1st oct.and C nat is anyones guess and I have to agree with peter that a compromise between octaves using equal temperament assures good overall intonation particularly in the high oct notes.As a guitar player I am accustomed to the sound of equal temperament, and except the limitations set by the instrument.As a fiddle player I just play what sounds right and hope for the best.As a whistle player I simply like the one that plays in tune in the most pleasing manner possible which is the reason I must re-tune my Generations, and all this interesting discussion helps me on the way.Thanks and Peace,Mike:)
[ This Message was edited by: mike.r on 2001-11-13 15:52 ]
Ronaldo,
I understand profesional ethics may prevent you from answering this, but in your opinion, are Generations tuned to one of the temperaments we are discussing here or are they simply out of tune.Also,enough good things have been said of your whistles by lots of folks on this forum that I dont doubt YOU can acheive just temperament on a whistle, but, and I’m just wondering, how on earth do you do this?Thanks, Mike
