What can you tell me about Michael Grinter’s flutes? I haven’t seen much mention of them in these topics. Thanks.
have you checked out his website?
I’m also very interested in hearing from someone who’s played one, especially how they compare with Olwells and some of the other high-end flutes.
I’ve been to Michael Grinter’s website and the photos are beautiful. I’ve seen him credited on cd’s, but more for his whistles. I’ve also seen Ormiston’s, Hamilton’s and Copely’s sites. If anyone can describe the Grinter, it would be helpful. (I’ve been through a number of the other conversations here, and it’s been very enjoyable and enlightening!)
Chris Laughlin is the man to answer your questions, he owns both a Grinter and an Olwell.
Loren
Plus he’s had a go at just about everything else worthwhile out there.
Loren
Grinter is one of the world’s leading flute makers. I’ve tried out five or six of his flutes and they were among the very best flutes I’ve ever played. Kevin Crawford, Jean-Michel Veillon, Siobhan Kelly, and a number of other great flute players are playing Grinter flutes these days.
The ones I’ve seen were all based on Rudall and Rose flutes. They have a big sound, are well in tune, and are very well made. I personally prefer them to the Olwell flutes that I’ve played, but most of the Olwells I’ve seen were Pratten-style flutes, which I don’t like as much anyway.
I played my Grinter Keyless Blackwood against an Olwell and I think they are just two superb flutes. There was not that much difference in the flutes (the differences were subtle not drastic), The Grinter was a little more defined and tight and the Olwell more full but not drastically, only subtly. The holes are very close in size. I found the Olwell initially a little easier to play but once the Grinter gets warmed up it’s just as easy. I wanted to compare the two so in my mind I know that I got a good flute and I have. The Olwell that my friend had was superb as well (he definitely got a good one).
I have a question because the Olwell has cork around the tenons and the Grinter has Silk thread.
The question is about the silk tenons on the Grinter or any flute that has Silk tenons. How tight should they be and if they are too tight can it put pressure on the flute to make it crack once the flute warms up? I love the flute. But I find that when the weather changes certain joints can become just a tiny bit loose and I have to add extra Silk thread to tighten them up. Is it better to have them a little loose or should I keep adding and removing silk thread as need be? I feel like I need to be a master fly fisherman to get the tenons just right every time the weather changes. Is there a solution to this? Grinter suggests that the tenons should not be loose (wiggle)
Some food for thought:
When people say that it is you who makes the flute sound good they are correct as long as we are playing good instruments. I don’t think that the different flutes from good makers make that much difference.
Example:
I play for people and ask them their opinions, I had a G Olwell Bamboo flute that I started on while I was deciding on a Blackwood. I later bought a F Olwell Bamboo. Because I had played the G for awhile everyone liked the G better than the F including myself. 6 months later everyone likes the F much much better, When I got my Blackwood D flute everyone liked the F, it pissed me off because how could people like an $80 flute over a $1100 flute, but now they like the Blackwood better, and when I play a Grinter vs Olwell they sound very similar (it’s me, the way I play that makes most of the difference) and it’s putting the time in on the instrument
Regarding the silk tenon wrappings:
If the fit gets just a little loose you can tighten it up by rubbing your fingernail along the length of the tenon to rough up the silk. If it’s so loose that you have to add thread, use a small piece of thread (2-3 inches) and start the wrapping near the base of the tenon (closer to the body of the flute). Space the first couple of rows of thread fairly close together, then use up the rest of the thread in a wider spacing heading toward the tip of the tenon. Rub the end of the thread with a little beeswax to keep it down.
You don’t want the joint to be too tight, as silk can absorb some water and will swell slightly. That can potentially lead to a crack, especially if you play with a tenon that has gotten so tight you can’t take the flute apart once the moisture gets into the thread.
Threads are more hassle than cork, but they give you more control over the tightness or looseness of the fit. You should aim for a snug fit, but not so tight that it requires serious effort to take the flute apart.
[ This Message was edited by: bradhurley on 2002-11-20 11:31 ]
Thanks Brad, much appreciated
On 2002-11-20 10:53, OdinDane wrote:
I played my Grinter Keyless Blackwood against an Olwell and I think they are just two superb flutes. There was not that much difference in the flutes (the differences were subtle not drastic),
There’s a considerable difference in philosophy at work between the two. Michael Grinter’s flutes are in the Rudall Rose style – small fingerholes, tight bore. Patrick also makes a Rudall flute, however, he’s mainly known for his take on the Pratten style. It really depends on what you want to sound like. Grinters are comparably quiet, but you can get a lovely focused elegant tone out of them. I personally favor a bigger louder instrument – I have two Olwell Prattens – but YMMV.
The two are very nearly equal in terms of workmanship. Grinter’s blocks are lined with silver, and there are little round cork bumper pads set into the body of the flute under the touches of the keys, which is true to the original RR pattern. Patrick uses cork pads glued to the underside of the touches, and doesn’t line his blocks. Makes no difference at all that my fingers can tell. Grinters are available with the low C and C# keys, which Patrick doesn’t yet offer.
Playing and soundwise… I find Patrick’s flutes have a better dynamic range, and are more flexible and easier to get a good tone out of (but again, that’s just me). Grinters are a bit stiffer – not a bad thing! – and to me really lend themselves to a smooth, strong tone within a smaller dynamic range. When I play a Grinter, it’s easy to see why Kevin Crawford plays the way he does.
R.
Brad,
Slight correction.
If the interview is up to date Jean plays a Wilkes.
I now play a D 8-keyed and an Eb 8-keyed Pratten model, both by Chris Wilkes, who makes fantastic flutes. I still play some of the Lehart flutes. As some of these flute-makers know, I have a hard time explaining and choosing exactly what type of flute I want! I can’t say more.
Jean-Michel bought a Grinter last year and sold one of his Wilkes flutes (the Pratten-style one). When I saw him this past April he was going back and forth between the Grinter and his Rudall-style Wilkes. He loved them both, I’m not sure whether he reached a decision in the end as to which would be his main flute.
[quote]
On 2002-11-21 00:36, CraigMc wrote:
Brad,
Slight correction.
If the interview is up to date Jean plays a Wilkes.
Thanks, everyone. This discussion helps me understand the various flutes’ characteristics. I have an acquaintance here in town with an Olwell keyless, and I’m sure he’ll let me test drive it. However, I’d like to have a flute in hand sooner than 2008, and somewhere I got the idea that Olwell’s waiting list is closed for a while. Mrs. Grinter (wife, not mother)indicated that Michael’s keyless flute could be delivered in about 6 months. Then of course, there’s the Copely to consider. And the Hamilton, and the…
Well, I’ve been playing a Seery Delrin flute for about a year (with 30 years of whistle, 6 years of boxplaying… and silver flute in my Klezmer past)just to see if I wanted to take the leap into flutes at all. Can’t turn back, can’t wait 5 years…
P.S., Who is Jean-Michel Veillon?
On 2002-11-21 09:57, Mark48 wrote:
P.S., Who is Jean-Michel Veillon?
Jean-Michel Veillon is an unbelievably great flute player from the north of Brittany. He is best known for his work with the band Kornog, although he has several outstanding solo albums available that should not be missed. He plays Irish music as well as Breton, but I feel that the Breton music is where his genius shines most brightly. There’s an interview with him at http://www.firescribble.net/flute/veillon.html
He’s an amazing musician, both technically and emotionally. You must hear him!
Mark - Let’s see if I can be helpful here.
First - the wait for an unkeyed Olwell in only one year… it’s the keyed flutes that are 6 years or more.
I’m amazed that the wait for a Grinter has gone down. I waited 14 months for my unkeyed, and have been waiting 18 months for a keyed.
About their differences… hmmm.
Both are absolutely superb flutes, instruments of the highest caliber. There’s no way I could call either of them better than the other.
They are, however, quite different and lovely in their own ways.
I think the folks here have done a pretty good job of describing the differences.
The Olwell has more of a big, robust, growling tone and can really roar. To me the Olwell, when played properly (which is quite rare for me), sounds very much like how Conal O’Grada and Paul McGratten sound… it sounds like the flute is a wild animal about to attack. The Olwell is also able to swell in volume and tone tremendously… it has more possibility in that respect than any flute I recall playing.
The Grinter is altogether different. It has a very focused, refined, mellow yet quite firm and rich tone. There is not quite as much room for volumetric dynamics and I have a hard time pushing it quite as hard as the Olwell, but when played right the tone, responsiveness and overall feel of the flute is just mindblowing. As someone mentioned earlier, you can see why Kevin plays the way he does on his Grinters. These flutes are liking driving Porsches or or BMWs, whereas an Olwell is a bit more like a Humvee. Tonally, listen to Kevin for the basic idea. Grinter’s flutes have more of an old sound to them - very tight, clear and horn like, with a nice, crisp bite to them. They are very much in the style of the old Rudalls. Honestly, I prefer the tone and response of the Grinter but I love the range of expression and volume possible on the Olwell. If I had could have an Olwell that had the tone of the Grinter or a Grinter that had the huge range in terms of volume and tone - that would be my dream flute.
So, they’re both absolutely killer instruments. I don’t think you can go wrong with either of them.
My best advice is this: If you really dig Paul McGratten, Conal O’Grada, Harry Bradley and that really rough, balls-out playing style and tone, go for an Olwell. If you prefer a more refined, yet laser sharp and responsive, tone and style of someone like Kevin Crawford of Mike McGoldrick, go for a Grinter.
They’ll both kick your ass.
Best,
Chris
Can anybody tell me the difference in sound between the Grinter Blackwood and the Red Lancewood flutes? Has anyone played Grinter’s Pratten model?
- Craig
Craig -
The lancewood is beautiful to look at, but a bit quieter, mellower and more prone to cracking. The blackwood is louder, harsher and less prone to cracking.
I didn’t know Michael made a Pratten model.
Chris
He mentions on his website - “Pratten system are under development”
It has been on there a while so I’m wondering if anyone has heard anything yet.
Chris do you have the Blackwood or Lancewood Grinter? And is the keyed one you ordered the same?
\
Music expresses that which can not be said and on which it is impossible to be silent Victor Hugo
[ This Message was edited by: CraigMc on 2002-11-21 12:33 ]