If the person generously offering to sell his Sweetheart Rosewood flute and donate the proceeds to a relief fund would care to repost his offer without spewing unprovoked, bitter, and personal insults to people he doesn’t know, he may certainly do so. In the meantime, it’s posted on the whistle board without such insults (so far). Interested parties may feel free to check there.
Dale
Are the people who you refer to as those I don’t know the many Americans who have recently laid waste to Falluja, Mr Wisely ?
Do you approve of such horrendous war crimes ?
Do tell us.
But of course you say you do not read contributiions to the Flute forum !
I totally agree with AndrewK’s political viewpoint.
However, rather than rant and antagonise, Mr. K. might be better heard were he to soften his expressions of outrage. People can only hear to ten percent on either side of them in a political discussion, especially when they are shouted at.
Nobody listens to people whom they perceive to be on the fringe ends of political debate.
If Andrew were to speak softly rather than yell more people might hear what he is saying. If AndrewK cares to change opinion then he should speak more quietly. It does no good to scream across the ocean, from the safety and comfort of the Engish countryside, that America is the evil empire. Particularly when the British are in bed with Bush and the rest of the oil and profit hungry international profiteers. The British were the first to rape the middle-east. They were playing The Great Game long before Americans entered the scene.
Finally, may I remind Mr K that the evil is global corporate capitalism and not any one country or the people in it. Bash Bush, by all means. But don’t include Dale Wisely or me in your ravings – or the other two hundred million American and British people who don’t support our governments’ course in the mid-east. You do yourself and us a disservice.
Go have a drink and relax, Andrew. I am on your side.
Of course, I approve of horrendous war crimes. Doesn’t everybody? In fact, I think I’m going to start I-heart-horrendous-war-crimes.com.
Andrew, please, I beg you, stop. This is most inappropriate.
OK, Mr Wisely, I shall make more no more observation on the dreadful attitude I was originally referring to.
I must remind you, however, that you told me that you do not so much as bother to read the Flute posts when doing your censorship.
That does not impress me much, but good luck to you in the New Year, and good luck to the millions of new refugees, whether naturally caused or deliberately.
Andrew, mein bubbalink. Please, please, make nice
to the customers! The blood of my ancestors speaks
from my veins: abuse has never sold a camel!
I would be grateful if somebody would buy this
flute, which is a good flute at a good price for a good cause.
I have one already or else I would have purchased
it long ago.
I will also testify that, public appearances notwithstanding, Andrew
in person, or one on one, is a decent fellow
with whom one can transact.
I agree with David. It’s not your opinion’s most of us disagree with, Andrew, it’s your rhetoric. It verges on verbal abuse. Spewing toxic remarks will not alter the American public’s awareness or attitude towards its government’s policies. It will only foster resentment which is an impediment to change.
As for how Dale came upon the thread and its contents I would guess an offended person sent Mr. Wisely a message.
Cheers,
Aaron
I emailed Dale, as always.
‘You disgust me’ was well over the top.
Love to all.
“Gentle” men, Andrew and Dale, let’s not forget what you both originally started out to do - help the people in the tsunami disaster.
Congrats to Dale et al. for showcasing the aid organizations that will help thousands of innocent people involved in this disaster and, thus, encourage our members to give what they can to help…and to Andrew for donating the proceeds of his Sweet flute sale to the cause.
Please, let’s leave discussions about Iraq, U.S. imperialism, British imperial history, Bush, Blair, etc. out of this. Andrew, please suitably repost your most generous offer on this board.
Paul
But my reaction to which Mr Wisely reacted was nothing to do with American government policies as has been misrepresented by some, and maybe misunderstood by Jim.
I took objection to the idea that in a time of such great need for international effort the poster should say that many Americans like to look after their own families first.
I am appalled by such an attitude which I do not feel represents the true nature of the American people, and I do not see why I should not say so.
Actually, I wasn’t referring to the Asian tragedy. You said people should give money and then go back to concentrating on killing millions of people in Iraq (in the American way). My comment (that most of us concentrate on our families and other little things like that) was intended to show that most American citizens do not concentrate on killing people in Iraq, but on living our lives in spite of our government. You completely misunderstood my intent. I give money to charity and I believe in helping people. I didn’t vote for Bush and I do not kill people in Iraq
I said nothing of the sort. Should go back to killing millions !!! Ha !
You did say in the face of all the horrors that many Americans like to look to their families first, and that was the context I complained in.
I am glad that you did not mean what you said.
The question of any hypocracy in deliberately creating homelessness then doing a little to reduce some elsewhere is quite another matter.That, of course is not your fault. Probably the US media.
It is a shame that, for whatever reason you have, you have tried to put people off buying the flute.
I think you’ve done that quite well on your own, Andrew.
Since the thread has been deleted, the proof is gone. But actually, I quoted your comment about Americans concentrating on killing people in Iraq and then said that we actually concentrate on our families and little things like that. I have already explained my meaning. I didn’t say “families first” or anything like that. I did mean what I said, in the way I said it. I concentrate on living my life in spite of my government. Most of us do. That has nothing to do with charity or lack thereof. You misunderstood and your continued hatefulness won’t change my original comment or meaning.
You started the flute sale with an insult to me specifically and to Americans at large. I responded.
Disease is a terrible thing. But sometimes it’s not surprising where, or in whom, it turns up. Negativity and acidic thoughts can make you sicker.
I wanted very much to jump into your original post Drew, and call you out but I refraned because I don`t have the energy to waste on meaningless dribble. I would like you to understand that there are many of us, millions of us in this country that are commited to expossing this administrations goals and beliefs as concerns its world fiew. If you remember, it took us 7 years to bring about the end of the Viet Nam war, with many of us ending up dead, injured, and jailed to bring about that change. That is the kind of commitment that will be required of us again. I might add that there was little relief or joy in our victory back in 73. The cost was very high and, as it turned out, was only the end of one small battle in the neverending struggle for the dignaty of man. All governments are an experiment, for good or ill, and it is our responsability, as inventers of said governments, to see that they reflect our ideals and beliefs. Your reteric only tells me that you have choosen to make noise. Noise has no effect on the problem. Work, and a commitment to make change are what are required of us to end this outrage. I for one, have little energy left to deal with a screaming child.
Take care
Tom
AND WHERE THEY MAKE A WILDERNESS, THEY CALL IT PEACE
My 2 cents is that America bashing is bad for
business, but I don’t mind it terribly.
I do appreciate that others do, of course,
but I wouldn’t want a thread deleted simply for
America bashing. The generic observation
that Americans are typically …fill in the blanks,
is uncivil and shooting from the hip with a
shotgun, but it is nowhere written that
one must take it seriously. I’ve ignored
it for years.
Personal abuse directed at particular individuals
is, for me, unacceptable.
By the way we do have the political thread, above,
where America bashing can go.
Sorry, a memory:
I was a Fulbright Teaching Fellow, talking to Indian Marxist
intellectuals in the garden of the faculty club
at the University of Rajisthan in Jaipur.
They were explaining to me that Americans
are rich capitalists who have everything done
for them by machines or servants.
There were waiters serving us, a gardener pulling
weeds, and, on the street outside, people were
pushing carts along.
Looking about I observed that I had done all of these jobs:
I had worked as a waiter, I had worked for
years as a gardener, and, as a boy, I had pushed
carts through the streets of New York City.
When I looked back at the Marxist intellectuals
they were staring at me with revulsion and disgust:
that a PROFESSOR should work with his HANDS!
I’ve lived outside the USA. It is really interesting to see other cultures viewpoints of us. Much of this is based on our media, and our trashy television entertainment. Some of their viewpoints are correct, and some are way off.
Jim, I agree with you, that it’s also interesting to see the caste system inherent in some other cultures. This worldview can be transferred to how they view us: We must be all filthy rich jet-setters, with servants and so forth. What many don’t realize is that lots of us so-called “filthy rich” Americans are the servants.
As a gigging musician, I’m pretty much accustomed to being directed to the back or the side door. 
Dana
Very true Dana! When my father and I travelled to Mexico to stay with my aunt in the 80’s, the people there were shocked to learn that we were poor. When we told them we lived in a creaky, drafty old house, with only one woodstove, no hot running water and an outhouse, and that my clothes were purchased at the Salvation Army, they just about had heart attacks. They thought we all lived lives like sitcom families, or Dynasty.
Is HE still at it? Wow. Unbelievable.
Still no reason to come back.
Oh well…I guess no one needs me to say “I told you so.”
Sad.
Happy New Year and good music to all who really do care.
Bye.