Seeking advice: where to start to learn the fiddle

Trad Strings
1

Hello folks,

You may be tired of answering this question, and if so please feel free to simply write “use the dang search function”… but if you feel like helping out I’ll be very grateful.

I’ve been playing Irish flute and whistle for about 10 years now and I think I play fairly decently. For some years now I’ve been really yearning to learn the fiddle, but I have absolutely no idea where to start. I’ve never played fiddle or classical violin before and have no string-instrument experience. I’m starting fresh. What I do have going for me is an understanding of Irish music and a deep, deep love of it.

So, if you were me, living in Sri Lanka with no teachers to be found, where would you start if you were to learn the fiddle (yes, I can have DVDs, CDs and books sent here… but I’ll need to buy a violin down in Colombo)?

All and any advice is tremendously appreciated and will be well repaid in the afterlife.

Thanks,
Chris

2

Hi Chris,

Good to hear from you. I’m reluctant to give advice because I don’t trust your repayment offer. What makes you think we are going to the same place? And even if we do go the same place I’ll be waiting around for a few decades before you arrive. It gets hot down there you know, and playing a piano accordion could get boring.

That said… getting a fiddle would be the most important step. With your knowledge of the music I don’t think you’ll have too much difficulty working out tunes. I would say, don’t just learn tunes though - that can be a bit of a trap for someone in your position. Spend a good bit of time working on technique, especially bowing technique, and developing a nice sound. Make sure you have good posture - don’t scrunch up your neck or develop tension anywhere. Probably a good idea not to play for long periods at first, either.

Come back with specific questions once you have your axe. And welcome to the world of fiddles. Flutes are great, but… you know what I mean.

Steve

PS bring a plate of string hoppers when you come to our afterlife rendez-vous.

3

Hi-

Getting a violin is a great step foreward to learning the instrument :stuck_out_tongue: But you know that already.

In the mean time, I’d suggest getting your hands on lots of recordings of fiddlers playing. I find its easier t opick up an instrument if you have the sound you end result sound in your head, and know a little better what you are aiming for.

Do you read music? There are a lot of good tutor books out there, and with videos to give you a hand as well. I teach out of a book called “strictly strings”, which is a little older, but quite good I think. Watching people play (assuming they themselves have proper technique and the lot) is really helpful as well. I personally learn quite well by watching others do what I want to do, and then trying it myself.

I’d be happy to also take a stab at specific questions, but for now until you get a violin (and after as well) listen to all the fiddling you can. I have a violin I was selling, but its currently on loan to a good friend without a violin of his own, and I am too bashful to ask for it back… go figure. :wink:

And heck, maybe if we get enough people together, we can have a nice session in that afterlife party. Depending on how the next X years go, I’ve heard satan plays a pretty good fiddle :boggle: (not intended to insinuate that anyone here is darned to heck)

4

Greetings trouble-makers, and thanks for both the laughter and good advice…

You are quite wise to doubt the terms of my “repayment” offer, though as fiddlers I reckon you’re pretty much doomed anyways, both now and “later”, if you find yourself believing in such a thing. As for the piano accordion, don’t knock it until you try it. You’ll have an eternity to discover its charms.

As for acquiring a fiddle, yes, this must be done… but before I do, I want to have a better understanding of whether fiddle really can be learned in “isolation”, and if so, how. Are there any good books or DVDs that you would recommend for an absolute beginner? Remember, I don’t know how to hold a fiddle, where to put my fingers, or how to hold the bow. I’m starting completely from the beginning.

To answer a few of the questions posed - yes, I do read music, but I greatly prefer to learn by ear when possible. I feel the importance of this, especially with Irish music, can not be overstated. I also find it much easier to learn a tune, to play it well, and to really remember it permanently when I’ve learned by ear. That said, I do use sheet music as a helping tool, and I’m not adverse to doing so when necessary.

In terms of listening… well… I’ve been listening to Irish music almost exclusively for about 10 years now, and I reckon I have a pretty good collection of fiddle music. If there is one fiddle player I’d choose to sound like, I think it would be Oisin Mac Diarmada. “Ar an bhfidil” is sublime.

I think the core of my question is, can one, living in a place where the is nobody else playing Irish fiddle, and not even anyone playing classical violin, learn how to play Irish style fiddle, having never played a note on a fiddle before? If so, where should one start?

Best,
Chris

5

Chris,
a bit part of what a fiddle/violin teacher does besides showing a student what to do (which you can get off a video) is listen and watch the student to make sure the student is actually using the good technique they’ve taught them.
If the student is having difficulties, the teacher then adjusts the program to include exercises that address the problems the student might have.

A very valuable tool in my fiddle kit (besides fiddle, bows, case, chin rest, shoulder rest, rosin, and electronic clip on tuner) is a recording device.
Record yourself periodically. Beyond hearing how you’re currently playing, it can be used as a journal of your improvements.

If I had an easy to set up video camera I’d use that too to test my posture at least weekly while playing.
I don’t, so instead I use a full length mirror.
(I use a cheap mirror I picked up to self observe while doing yoga asanas.)

A short coming of using a mirror is one has to be open to recognizing things done wrong at the very time they do it. No excuses!
Learning how to bow straightly etc. using a mirror can be quite a challenge at first.

A good thing about practicing in front of a mirror is (if you remember to use it) you’ll learn not to be staring directly at your fingers or the printed page.
It also will teach you how to visually observe others (should the occasion ever happen) while playing with them.

I never used tapes as visual frets on my fiddle. Some people swear by them.
Instead I used my ears to hear if my fiddle fingers were correctly placed. Just having your fingers in the correct place isn’t enough. The pressure you use, or rather lack of pressure is a big factor. Its just a touch. What you’ll do with the bow is more aggressive.

Early on I got into the habit of practicing at least part of the time in the dark.
I found that my fiddle fingers and bowing arm self corrected a bit when I concentrated on just getting the desirable sound. Perhaps that was because in the dark I was more aware of how I felt with the sound I was making with the fiddle from inside my body?

6

Yes, I reckon you could handle the learning to play part of it OK in isolation, Chris. Especially with the likes of us to help you out (and queuing up to claim our payback in the realm of the hungry ghosts).

One thing though - if nobody around there plays classical, once you have your fiddle, will there be anyone to repair, set it up and generally fettle it for you?

If not you might have to learn a few things about setup etc. that it would be definitely handier to have someone show you. But again, we are here to guide you :slight_smile:

Cheers - and go for it!
Steve

7

Are there really no violinists in Sri Lanka?
This guy advertises as a teacher on the west coast:
http://violin-world.com/teacher/violin/srilanka/

Or is Sri Lanka bigger than I’m thinking?

8

Chris haven’t you noticed that you are NOT isolated at all? You have the Internet. Check out the on-line teachers. There are more and more of them everyday. You might need to upgrade your computer a bit, but live, one-on-one lessons are becoming very popular. You can have a teacher half-way around the world.

Not only that, but you’ve got all of us pulling for you!! Get ye a fiddle and start sawin’ son!

Let me share a little personal experience. It’s worth absolutely nothing, so don’t worry about paying for it in this life or any other. :smiley:

A have a good friend who is an accomplished violinist. He has a violin worth thousands of dollars. I’ve been scratching on a $300 fiddle for a couple of years. When he picks up my fiddle it sounds beautiful. When I stick his violin under my beard it sounds like somebody trying to kill a seagull with a bagpipe. But that doesn’t stop me from having a ball, and nothing should stop you either. Get a fiddle and get started. It’s going to be a blast!

9

Howdy folks!

Thanks for all the great advice and encouragement. I most certainly will find myself a fiddle and get started.

As for teachers, isolation, etc - I live in north-east Sri Lanka in what was until very recently a conflict area. It’s still a place where, if I were to drive down the road, the number of machine guns I’d see per minute would probably average around 5. That said, there well may be some violinists hiding out here somewhere, and I’m going to try to find them. In the meantime, I’ll try and get in touch with some violinists in other parts of the island and see if I can get any leads. Regarding distances, for instance to the west coast of the island, it’s probably an 8 or 9 hour drive, requires security-clearance, etc -so not so easy to do casually. Still, I’ll get in touch with these folks and ask for their advice.

Thanks again for all the encouragement and good wishes. I’ll be sure to drop in from time to time for more help whenever I need it, and I thank you all in advance for sharing your experience and knowledge with me…

Peace,
Chris

10

It’s not Irish stuff (apart from the inevitable crossover tunes) but Brian Wicklund’s American Fiddle Method books and DVD’s are absolutely brilliant for getting the basic skills down. I got these before I took my first lessons, and my teacher (when I found one) was surprised at how much progress I had made in the meantime. She said what I had picked up was pretty much spot on. I lent her the DVDs to see what I had been doing and she promptly ordered copies for herself to help her devise some new lessons. My teacher is an Irish fiddle player, but she reckons the bluegrass/old time stuff in the Wicklund series would give anyone a sound start.

Best money I ever spent on instrument tutorials.

11

Thanks Buddhu! That’s very helpful. I’ll order them and have them sent here.

Peace,
Chris

12

I don’t think there is an Irish book that covers how to hold the instrument, etc. If you can find something to cover the very basics, for your next step I recommend Mel Bay’s Complete Irish Fiddle Player, with cd. It does the best job, I think, of getting a jig to sound like a jig, reel like a reel, etc. It goes way more into depth with bowing, tune structure, and ornaments than the competitors.

videos should be a great help. Although I have no first-hand experience, you might check out the Kevin Burke DVDs. I think there is a Charlie Lennon video out there too.

For basics, there’s some good stuff over at www.expertvillage.com

http://www.expertvillage.com/video/13080_fiddle-hold.htm

13

Hi Chris,
Another tutor which you may find useful (I certainly did) is Melbay’s
“You can teach yourself fiddling”
Although not aimed specifically at Irish Fiddling, though there are e few examples, I found it a great help regarding stance, holding the fiddle, holding the bow, bowing, etc, etc.
It will generally point you in the right direction as a complete beginner, and will (hopefully) steer you clear of developing bad habits, which can be
difficult to eliminate later.
Good luck…and enjoy.

Allen

14

I just bought the first Kevin Burke DVD, and I have his second, and the Charlie Lennon DVD on order. Those should be here this week.

The first Burke DVD is a thing of variable merit. It covers jigs polkas and slides - the second will do reels.

The choice of tunes is fine, and it’s nice to see Burke’s playing close up. I don’t think this DVD would work for the absolute beginner as yer man doesn’t cover the basics such as poise, left and right hand positions, bow grip, parallel bowing “on the highway”, string crossing etc.

The DVD doesn’t use the common device of insetting a window to show the movement of both hands. Consequently, while the view of Kevin’s left hand is clear, it is not always easy to see the direction of his bowstrokes. He does say that there are no set bowing patterns in Irish music, but a beginner really does need to be able to see an example of a workable pattern, even if it isn’t the only way to do it.

Burke is a very relaxed teacher, but at times he almost seems to drift into catalepsy. If his presentation had been less lethargic I think he could have got a bit more substance into the time allowed.

I do like the DVD, and I am learning stuff from it, but it is not the well-planned, comprehensive, structured beginners’ course that The American Fiddle Method is.

I still recommend the Wicklund AFM DVDs as the best music instruction video material I have ever encountered. A real structured, progressive course that goes from absolute basics to jam level over the two DVDs.

I’ll post reviews of the Lennon DVD and Kevin Burke’s second volume when they arrive.

15

According to my wife, the best place to start to learn the fiddle is FAR AWAY… :smiley:

16

:laughing:

17

On the off chance that it is of any use to anyone, I’ve decided to do the reviews of tutorial material in a separate thread. It might make it easier for newbies to find pointers when searching.

I’ve got the Lennon DVD now. See other thread for review.

18

Hi Folks,

Since you all helped me out so much I wanted to give you an update.

I’ve managed to get a violin/bow/accessories as well as instructional books as DVDs, shipped to me in Sri Lanka, but not without a major pain in the @$$. To summarize, the Sri Lankan customs authorities ended up charging me approximately 80% of the total value of the items in tax, duty, warehouse fees, delivery fees, high-value consignment fees, bank fees, etc, etc, etc… government sponsored extortion at its best.

That out of the way, what did I get?

- Violin - Yamaha SV-120 “Silent Practice” violin, with low-end Glasser composite bow - Okay, I know most of you are probably thinking to yourself “Why the heck would you buy an electric instrument for Irish traditional music???” - and that’s a darned good question. The answer is that I live right next door to two other houses and I don’t want to drive my neighbors crazy with my practicing as a beginner. While learning the flute I was always very self-conscious about disturbing others with the noise, and I strongly feel that had a negative impact on my learning and on my tone. I wanted to avoid the same problem while learning the fiddle. I was also concerned about what the tropical climate here in Sri Lanka might do to a wooden instrument. Do I plan on buying a proper wooden fiddle when I get the chance? Heck yeah, but I’d like to do so in person, after testing lots of instruments, while I am home in the US&A or in Europe. What do I think about the Yamaha SV-120 so far? Well, I’m just barely beginning on the fiddle so I’m no proper judge of an instrument, but so far it seems pretty kick-@$$. It’s lightweight, durable, and has a nice sound even in my hands. It does feel a bit like a toy, but that’s okay so long as it plays well, which it seems to. As for the bow, I don’t know one bow from another, so I really can’t comment. It was a cheap bow and it came with the fiddle. What’s a real pain is getting the strings properly rosined the first time. I downloaded instructions for priming the rosin and applying it to the bow, but it’s still a pain and the rosin is not being particularly cooperative… hopefully it will get easier.

Brian Wicklund’s American Fiddle Method Books, CDs, DVDs - Volumes 1 and 2 - As had been suggested, these seem to be really excellent for learning complete fiddle basics, though they focus on general American-style fiddling and don’t teach Irish style. Still, I think they are excellent for learning fiddle-fundamentals, and I can build the Irish style on top of those fundamentals. All in all, I think this is one of the best learning-packages I’ve purchased for anything (and I’ve purchased a lot - I’m a compulsive learner).

Kevin Burke’s Learn to Play Irish Fiddle DVDs, Volumes 1 and 2 - Well, Kevin’s a great player, and the tunes and settings are superb, but this is really not a set for a beginning fiddler at all, and the teaching could be a lot better. Someone who already plays fiddle pretty well will benefit from these DVDs, but a beginning fiddler will be totally lost.

Matt Cranitch’s The Irish Fiddle Book: The Art of Traditional Fiddle-Playing (Book & CD) - I’ve just started reading through this and listening to the tunes, but it seems very good so far. The tunes are played beautifully, the book is very detailed, and it seems to go through all the necessary steps from complete beginner to advanced. I think it might be a little difficult to learn from the book and CD alone if I didn’t also have the Wicklund DVD for visual reference, but it would be doable. I really appreciate that the Cranitch book goes right into real Irish tunes straight away, but I also thing that the Wicklund set is a slower, more appropriate, better progression for a complete beginner. The Cranitch learning-curve is a bit steep for a total newby. That said, I think this is a superb set, and love Cranitch’s Sliabh Luachra style, which is the style in which I really started (learned from a 70 year old button-accordion player from Killarney… polkas, slides and barn-dances…).

Mel Bay’s Complete Irish Fiddle Player, by Peter Cooper - I’ve just started looking through this, so I really can’t make much comment. It seems similar to Cranitch’s book and CD, but maybe with a little more description of technique. I do prefer Cranitch’s playing on the CD, and I prefer Cranitch’s tune choices as well, but there’s no doubt that the Cooper CDs are an invaluable resource. One of the most wonderful things about the book is the amazing photos of all the legendary fiddle players. Great stuff. Again, I’ve really just begun to look through this book and listen to the music, so take all I’ve said with lots of grains of salt.

So how is my fiddle learning going? I am really, really just starting. I’m working on playing basic scales in tune and trying not to make the instrument sound like something in pain and dying. That said, it doesn’t seem as hard as I thought it would. I’ve been able to play a few jigs on the fiddle by heart which I’ve played on whistle/flute for many years. I think “The Cricket’s March” was the first. Does it sound good? No. Is it fun? Yup. Frustrating? A little bit - it’s hard not to be able to play the way I do on the whistle/flute. Do I think I’ll be able to do it? Heck yeah! Am I glad I started? You’d better believe it. I wish I did it a long, long time ago.

I think one of the toughest parts is getting my body comfortable. Today my neck is all wonkey, and I find it pretty tough to balance the fiddle properly and comfortably under my chin / on my shoulder. Any suggestions?

Anyways, thanks for all the advice, support and encouragement to make this happen. I appreciate it, and I’m really looking forward to this journey.

Best,
Chris

19

IMNSHO, start with scales,and arpeggios , slow notes, long bows. really listen to get your intonation right. This is the first and most important step it may well take a long time, persevere. I am talking about simple major scales, no more, in D,G,A C , F, in order of priority. in first position. These are your building blocks, your basics. getting these sorted early will be far more rewarding than trying to scratch out tunes. Really really. you already have a grasp of the tunes. once you can play the instrument, play the tunes. Simple.

20

ps, Crannitch is great! I really like his settings too. so is Kevin Burke. good choices.