Learning ornamentation -- frustration & motivation

Whistle
1

I’ve been playing whistle for a few months now, and I’m feeling like it’s time for me to start learning basic ornamentation. I feel a bit of trepidation around this, though, because when I tried learning to play the whistle a few years ago, I think I started in on ornamentation too early. My ornamentation struggles made me so frustrated that whistling gradually stopped being any fun, so I stopped playing altogether. So this time around I’ve stuck to more basic playing skills.

To give your a sense of where I am in my learning process, I should definitely start by saying I’m not at all musically talented, but by virtue of consistent practice I’ve finally graduated from slower songs and airs to some of the easier Irish-dance-tune-y stuff like beginners’ jigs and hornpipes. I’ve gotten to the point where I can finally play fluently enough to endow these with a perky little swing or lilt or whatever-you-call-it. This is great fun – the payoff for all the slow, stubborn, dirge-like practice I put in while learning up to this point.

So I guess I’m asking, first of all, if this seems like a good point in my learning process to start in with ornamentation? I’m hoping that the fun I’m having with adding a bit of swing to my hornpipes and jigs is enough to counterbalance the frustration that stymied me when I tackled ornamentation before.

The next thing I’m wondering is what kind of approach is most likely to be more rewarding than frustrating. I’d really like to know other people’s experiences with this, but here are my thoughts so far:

Last time around I did a lot of scales and exercies with cuts and strikes, as in Grey Larsen’s Tinwhistle Toolbox, but unfortunately that was pretty dry and unrewarding musically… but OTOH I didn’t have a good sense of where in tunes to put my ornaments, so I was kind of hoping that if I just learned to play them in isolation, they’d somehow magically appear under my fingers as I played tunes. Unfortunately I found the learning-in-isolation process frustrating and alienating…

This time around, I decided that I might find it more rewarding to learn ornaments in musical context. I went so far as to micro-listen to the CDs from my favorite tune collection, and write in the ornaments on photocopies of the sheet music (yes, I use sheet music. Part of my musical anti-talent is having a lousy ear). My thought here was that it might be easier to add ornaments to the tunes I already know… though so far, muscle memory keeps taking over so I keep reverting to playing the tune as I first learned it, un-ornamented, which is frustrating in an entirely new and different way.

So now I’ve collected example tunes with the ornaments written in, from Brother Steve and my various tutorials, I’m thinking that I always enjoy learning new tunes, and this can motivate me to learn them with the ornaments built in. Yeah, I know the ornaments are s’posed to be spontaneous, but what I’m trying to do here is motivate my fingers to learn the motions, and I’ve noticed that I learn tricky fingerings best when they’re in the context of a tune, rather than as isolated exercises… I mean, I practice the sticky bits over and over, like an exercise, but then I have the reward of playing it as part of a tune, and that motivates me to do more, do better, etc.

So that’s what I’ve been thinking and doing so far. I’d love to hear anyone else’s analysis of how they learned ornamentation, particularly what was frustrating or rewarding, effective vs. dysfunctional, etc. BTW, it’s not that I don’t know there’s bound to be plenty of frustration involved in learning this – what I’m looking for is ways to kind of psych myself past the frustration so I’ll stay motivated to learn, instead getting so completely frustrated that I give up on the whole thing, as happened last time.

2

Hi Squidgirl,

I share your frustration. I started learning reels and jigs from sheet music. I had a hard time adding rolls where I heard them on recordings. I think I’ve found the perfect slow hornpipe for adding rolls, at least for me: Poll Ha’Penny (aka The Garden of Butterflies). The sheet music from The Session (http://www.thesession.org/tunes/display/841) shows exactly where to insert the rolls, and you can hear them on Mary Bergin’s Feadoga Stain. I’ve decided to stick with slow hornpipes and waltzes until I’m confident of my rolls.

Don

3

This is a good question! I’m new to this, too. I have watched the tutorials on rolls over and over, but they simply don’t sound like the music I hear. The way they go blandly up the scale, down the scale.

I tried to practice it that way, too, but then it sounds even less like music to me when I do it, and doesn’t tell my fingers (who made these things? Dr. Frankenstein?) anything about how you fit one into a tune and make it sound like music.

I’ve been listening to the tunes as played by good players, especially the ones that don’t stick in so many ornaments you can’t hear the song anymore. Those twiddly bits sound nothing like the DAH-BLAH-BLAH examples.

4

Ah, ornaments… the holy grail of the enchanting trad sound…

Learning them is like learning any motor skill. Start slow, pay close attention, and gradually build speed. Its a good exercise in patience.

By starting slowly, and practicing accuratlely, you’ll be training your muscles + neurons. What’s crucial is to practice accurately. Your muscles will remember what you practice. I read in a book once: “practice makes perfect, but practice perfect”. Its helped me a great deal.

The simple process of repititon will invoke the magic of motor learning. Your brain will turn the ornament profile into a “chunk”, complete with its own trigger. When its been learned, you wont have to conciously think about all the individual movements. You just pull the trigger, and the ornament bursts forth.

Good luck!

5

A little more…

What I’ve found is that to insert the ornaments into a tune, the only way I can get it to work is to take the passages slowly enough so that I can get the ornament in while maintining cadence + control. As the repetion builds ease, gradually increase speed.

6

Rolls? Rolls?? Dare I even speak the word? In my mind, rolls are way distant, barely visible on the misty horizon. At this point I’m just aiming for the humble cut and strike… I figure that, given my level of (un)giftedness, I’d best start my struggle with the basic ingredients, & get the cut and strike well under control before I even think about combining them into a roll…

7

it can that the difficult rollers are something but in thing of 2 months already you can dominate them relatively well. Siemple is, single there are cut and tap very fast, that easy sounds, nevertheless is necessary to coordinate the fingers with your brain very well.

8

Let me suggest (again) Bill Ochs’ The Clarke Tinwhistle. Work through the book from the beginning to the end. Bill introduces all ornaments in a gradual, logical fashion with good tunes to illustrate them. Plus, the accompanying CD lets you hear the ornaments in the tune. Once you’ve finished the book you’ll have a good foundation of using ornaments at which point Grey Larsen’s excellent tome will be of more use to you.

9

THE best book ever---------in his CD that accompanies it you can here his deviations on strikes and notes changes, from the actual written notation----the perfect book -i am glad Paul that you mentioed this —because Bill ochs ----------is one of the bringers of life ,along with mary bergin to the world of the whistling—and he uses one of my favorites whistles—i think he helped promote Clarke too -i am not sure :smiley:

10

In flamenco music there are many ornaments. What I find true in flamenco I believe stands true for ITM. What my flamenco teacher stressed: when practicing, make every note perfect.

Implicit in this instruction is that one needs to use precision with each note. For me, to do this meant to slow down and focus on each note, as opposed to the concept of a series of notes in a roll or cran.

When dealing with one note we can exclude the notion of time. With two or more notes, time needs to be considered. So with a roll, where in time does each note in the series occur?

The metronome (here’s a free online metronome: http://www.metronomeonline.com) has been essential. It makes the mind and motor responses focus on the task at hand: make each note perfect.

I find this kind of practice intense and would not practice in this mode without a break every 20 minutes. When I resumed practice, I would increase the tempo.

As noted before, it has much to do with muscle memory. I found that the metronome introduced discipline to muscle memory attainment. Tedious as these sessions were, they paid off. Good luck. Cyril.

11

Hi Squidgirl- I would advise you to go slowly and play perfectly. Writing in the ornaments on a simple tune and get them right before going on. What is the hurry? There is no end in sight! If you like working online, Youtube has a course on simple whitsle playing done by a Jesuit seminarian at Fordam which has simple, short lessions that break down the basic ornaments. The fellows name is RyanDunsSJ.

12

Yes, the Fordham lessons on YouTube are great. You can also find them on WhistleThis.com.

As for books, I have both the Bill Ochs book and the Grey Larsen book. By Larsen, I have the full whistle & flute book, not just the Tinwhistle Toolbox, but I believe that the content is the same pertaining to the whistle.

I like them both, but the Ochs book was much more concise and easy to understand when I was first starting out.

Jason

13

Not to deviate, but since you mentioned Flamenco, Cyril, check out Troy NY guitar wiz Maria Zemantauski:
http://www.mariazemantauski.com/press.html
The woman is astounding!

14

You have it right on here. When people jump right into attempting rolls as their first experience with ornamentation then they almost always either end up sloppy and never develop properly or they end up extremely frustrated. Work on the basics and put them together later. I think you’re on the right path! Best of luck!

15

Make sure you keep your rhythm intact when you start fitting in ornaments. They shouldn’t throw off the rhythm, which is often what happens with beginners. The most common mistake I hear is ornaments pushing the regular notes out of time. Same with breathing- people create an extra beat to accomodate their breath instead of fitting it into the rhythm.

Everyone’s technique for playing ornaments is a bit different, so you can’t say it has to be precisely this way or that. If the rhythm holds steady, the ornaments should sound fine (hopefully). Of course, where you put them matters. If you look at where ornaments sit in printed transcripts, you’ll notice they’re predominately on the downbeat- often the first note of a measure. There is unlimited variation beyond that, but it’s a good place to start.

I would suggest practicing them within the context of a tune, rather than independent of them, at least after you figure out how to make the sound. It’s how they enhance or disrupt the tune that counts. Working from printed sources with ornamentation in place is a useful practice for beginners. All that stuff about how ornamenting is supposed to be intuitive and on the fly is for more advanced players.

Last thing: keep the ornaments quick and crisp. Most of them are rhythmic devices as opposed to melody notes. The main exception would be triplets in a hornpipe- they sound great if you don’t let them throw off the rhythm. Playing should be fun or what’s the point?
Tony

PS: If you’re feeling your oats and want something demanding, try The Dance Music of Willie Clancy. :smiling_imp: (If you’re a beginner, don’t even look at it. It will break your spirit. :boggle: ) It’s got his piping ornamentation in place, including triplets, two in a row.

16

Against all I’ve read, half rolls are easier for me than rolls.

17

HI Squidgirl, It seems like you’re on the right track. Not that I’m any expert :wink:

The advice posted here is all good. Specially the bits about keeping even tempo when you practice! That’s the key to crisp, acurate performance.

What I have found, so far, is that it helps to practice the hard bits on tunes that I like a lot. Starting with simple cuts or taps, getting them into the tune in places where it assists the rhythm of the tune - once that is mastered, try inserting rolls etc etc. It takes a bit of time, but each time you master it and get up to speed, the tune begins to sound more interesting and makes you feel like dancing.

It can be frustrating to begin with - for me, each time I add a new layer of embellishment to a tune, it’s like learning the dang thing all over again! But persevere. - there’s a great thrill when you hear your tunes start sounding like ITM!

All skill takes time, and the body needs pushing to develop new motions (specially as we get older) - but the rewards are definitely worth the pain!

18

That’s how I started out, methodically working through the Ochs’ tutorial. It was definitely very well paced for my skills, starting from (not quite) zero (I could read music, having played piano & recorder (quite badly and very long ago)). I like how it gave me a long series of tunes to get used to the instrument before it went on to ornamentation. But I broke up with it as my main tunebook when Mr. Ochs went up into the third octave. I just didn’t want to go there.

I switched over to working methodically thru the two beginner’s sections of Walton’s Ireland’s Best Tin Whistle Tunes, which is divided into sections of increasing difficulty. This also comes with CDs (if you buy the CD version), and I like the CDs because the tunes are played at a moderate pace so you don’t quite need slow-down-er software to track which ornaments are happening where. Also, the beginner’s section’s tunes on the CD just have cuts and strikes and slides, so they’re good for getting an idea of where to put these basic ornaments (the CDs start having rolls when they get to the intermediate sections’ tunes). The sheet music doesn’t have ornaments written in, but as I mentioned, I’ve been doing that myself, bit by bit.

Bill introduces all ornaments in a gradual, logical fashion with good tunes to illustrate them. Plus, the accompanying CD lets you hear the ornaments in the tune.

Hmm, it feels to me, as an not-musically-gifted beginner, like he introduces them in a pretty rapidfire way, one ornament after another, with just one tune to practice each new ornament on before it’s time to move on to the next new thing. Knowing myself and my learning process, I’m going to need some more practice tunes. Fortunately, Brother Steve offers a few more for cuts and strikes (and lots for rolls), but I also wanted to mention my new toy…

I finally got that Clare McKenna tutorial I had been so curious about a couple of months ago. I’d wondered about it for a while, since she’s the one who compiled the Ireland’s Best Tinwhistle Tunes collection that I’ve liked so much. This tutorial is hardly ever mentioned here, but I decided to check it out and am very favorably impressed. One thing about it that I like very much is that for each new bit of ornamentation, she has quite a few tunes to demonstrate its use. She introduces cuts, has 5 tunes with cuts notated, introduces triplets, has a few tunes with triplets, then a few more tunes with cuts and triplets both. She introduces each roll (and short roll) separately, with notation and fingering diagrams, and then has a tune for you to practice that new roll (along with ones you’ve learned already). Oh, and the tutorial comes with 2 CDs (if you buy the CD edition), one of which has demonstrations of scales and ornaments plus the tunes for practicing them, and the other of which is just a tunes CD which goes with the second half of the book, which is a nice Irish tune collection. I’m kind of planning to write a review of it after attempting to use it to teach myself ornamentation.

19

was your “tin whistle tool box” anything big, i have played for a few years and i learned from ear and ABC notation-----------which kind of screwed me years later because now i have the yearning to learn how to read music-----i have played the bagpipes and that is the only one i have used reading music it seemed alot easier ----and then you just “jot” in your extra strikes , rolls, grips, ------my 2 cents :smiley:

20

Here’s what’s worked for me. You can take it if it suits your personality or leave it if not.

Pick one place in one tune to try an ornament. If you have a teacher, (s)he can help; if not, listen to a recording and pick something which sounds nice. Work on the ornament in the context of the tune until it sounds nice. Then pick another place to put another ornament in the same tune. It doesn’t have to be the same ornament. When you’ve added several ornaments to the tune, try it with another tune. This will make playing an “old” tune more interesting and take the tedium out of practicing the ornament.

As someone else mentioned, make sure you don’t muck up your rhythm when you do this. But that’s just a matter of listening to yourself; it’s not especially hard to do if you think about it. If you can record yourself, so much the better.

Be aware that playing, say, an E roll is essentially a different ornament than, for example, an A roll. You can be good at one and terrible at the other.

Many tutorials seem to introduce a whole heap of ornaments at once (which I find overwhelming) and advocate playing the ornaments in isolation (which I find both boring and missing the forest for the trees; what good is an ornament if it doesn’t serve a tune?). The approach I outline above essentially means you spend more time on specific ornaments in context and less time practicing lots of ornaments in isolation.

In terms of individual ornaments to work on, don’t forget slides, which for some reason seem to be discussed less but sound really nice when used appropriately. I personally find short rolls much harder to do well than long rolls, so I’ve elected to focus on long rolls and leave short rolls until later. Pick what works for you!

Good luck!

-Craig