Hopefully someone can help me with a fiddle question. I have recently been thinking about taking up the fiddle and have been hearing some discouraging comments about how long it takes to get a decent sound out of the instrument. I also had to hear some beginner students give a fiddle recital and it was a rather scary thing to listen to (not that I would sound any better). Perhaps my question can’t be answered in a general way but how long does it take before one can play a song and sound half-way decent? Is the fiddle really that difficult to learn? I’m not asking this because I’m looking for any shortcuts but rather to understand what it will take to get competant on the instrument.
Mark,
As you seem to appreciate, learning the fiddle is a tough assignment, and especially tough as an adult.
Actually getting a tolerable sound that won’t hurt people’s ears is almost the least of your challenges and should only take you a few weeks. (Although developing a fine tone can take years.)
As to how long it will take you to be able to play nice music, that’s a rather different question.
Here are some questions I would put to you:
How old are you? If you’re over 30, maybe think twice. If you’re over 40, think three times.
What sort of physical shape are you in (as supple as a yoga teacher, as stiff as a board…) If you’re physically tense, think twice.
What other instruments have you played, if any? If none, think twice.
Can you sing in tune? If not, don’t think twice - forget it!
I taught fiddle to adult students for quite a few years and if you came to me, depending on your answers to the above questions, I might try to talk you out of it, or at least talk you out of any unrealistic expectations as to what standard you might achieve. If you still insisted that you wanted to learn after having all this cold water poured over you, then maybe you’d be ready for the challenge…
BTW a good idea is to learn mandolin for a couple of years before you tackle the fiddle. It’s a much less challenging instrument and since it is tuned in the same way you familiarize yourself with the fingering and learn some tunes that you can transfer to the fiddle. That way you’ve have fewer things to concentrate on when you take up the fiddle. And if the fiddle is too much for you, you can always keep up the mandolin.
HTH
Steve
Stevie, thanks for the reply.
I just turned 30 and have played guitar for about 1 1/2 years and the pennywhistle for about 4 months…so basically I have limited experience with learning music. Although, I don’t know if this counts, I have been listening to ITM for 10 plus years and I think I have a sense for the rythem. I would consider myself in decent shape and can hum/lilt a tune (my singing even scares me).
Although I realize that learning an instrument as an adult can be very difficult I don’t believe I will lack the commitment since I can be disciplined as far as practice goes. Plus, I also understand that with any instrument that it will take many years to become even competant.
Thanks again for any advice you might have.
I think, based on what you said, that you should go for it! Your years of listening to ITM will stand you in very good stead, and if you can lilt, you’re laughing.
Find a sympathetic teacher (one who’ll allow you to learn by ear), have lessons for a while… don’t be scared to leave the lessons and work on your own for a time… give yourself a couple of years, and then assess how you’re doing.
Practice lots and regularly but don’t go overboard at the beginning - give your body time to adjust.
Have fun!
I wanted to pick up the fiddle when I was young (14 or so) but everyone discouraged me - it’s too hard, too expensive. To hell with them, as soon as I scraped enough bread together I bought my own & went at it.
Is it hard? Yes, it’s hard, but if you love it enough it’s also that much more rewarding. Don’t expect to be playing anything right away, the first thing you should work on is the Dmajor scale. Don’t be afraid to put tape markers on the finger board to show you where your fingers should go. Put tape at the 1st, 2nd, 3rd etc positions, don’t rely on them too much but it does help prevent that “cat with it’s arse on fire” sound. Next pay attention to your bowing try breaking it up into different bow patterns.
first try them all “single bowed”
udududud (bow direction)
DEFGABcd
then try it broken into sets of two (this is more or less the way polka’s & hornpipes get bowed)
d- u- d- u-
DE FG AB cd
Then go for a jig type bowing I start on an E for a lead in note
d -ud -ud -ud
E DEF GAB cdc etc
The replaced the downstrokes with upstrokes…
Mostly keep a swingy rhythm, not quite dotted but more of a (3A-A A triplet swing. when in any 4/4(ish) key. Even though reels & hornpipes are written out in 4/4 or cut time try to think of them as 12/8. so instead of
AAAA AAAA |
think of it as
(3A-A A (3A-A A (3A-A A (3A-A A |
if it’s played
A>AA>A A>AA>A
it sounds a little too uptight & not so free & easy.
These are some basic things to get you started, you can take them with a grain of salt. Get with a good player of the style you want to learn for lessons.
Good luck 
Mark
If I may make a suggestion? During the Renaissance, the dominant “bowed string instrument” was the Viol. The Treble Viol in the key of “d” Major has frets of gut/polymer spaced just like a guitar. The sound is softer,like a bowed psaltery, and perfect for session playing.
The instrument has 6 strings and can play chords because the bridge has a more shallow curve. The size is about the same as a Greek Bouzouki and can use a “spike” stand so you don’t need to cradle it in your lap. This instrument is a snap to learn for an old guitar player, like yourself. Go find one and give it a try! I would be half human without mine. Here is a photo of one…
http://www.ellisium.cwc.net/brescianvg.htm
Thomas Hastay.
That’s great advice. I was wondering about the fiddle myself, because, well, I play a musical instrument, and everyone who plays a musical instrument wonders if he should have taken up the violin instead.
But here’s my question: what’s the situation for lefties?
In retrospect, I realize that the musical instruments I did learn—french horn as a child, and now anglo concertina—are both good instruments for the insane^H^H^H^H^H^H left-handed. Guitars are a pain for lefties. How about mandolins and fiddles?
Caj
Not sure what you mean by that, do you mean finding a good left handed guitar as easily as a right handed one, or that it’s hard to play the guitar being left handed? I know plenty of left handed guitarists who play “right-handed” with no problems at all. I think lefties have an advantage, the left hand is doing the intricate fretting, while the non-dominant hand is just strumming, things were different in the baroque & lute days when some crazy picking hand talent was needed. Nowadays most of that stuff has gone the way of the dinosaur, replaced by mitten handed flatpickers. If you want to get into violin it can be set up left handed, but it’s frankly more of a pain in the patooty than it’s worth. You’ll have to bring it to a violin shop have the bass bar removed (a little dangerous) moved to the other side, sound post moved over to the other side, bridge re-cut etc etc. Possibly making the instrument that sounded great set up as a righty sound like a piece of chinese factory junk - now you’re out the price of the violin & all of the work. Just swallow your lefty pride & buy a righty instrument, both hands have so much to do on fiddle that it doesn’t really matter.
I don’t think that the tasks assigned to the left and right hands on stringed instruments have anything to do with the apparent complexity of these tasks. You bow with your right hand, or rather your right arm, because (for most of us) that is your dominant hand, the hand that expresses your will, and sooner or later everyone who plays a violin (or fiddle) realizes that the bow hand is what determines nearly everything about the way you sound - it’s what makes you as a player, much much more than the fingering hand.
The fingering hand has a tricky job to do, sure, but it is totally subservient to the bow hand, which should be your dominant hand. Now if you want to play in orchestras, I think you have no choice but to play a right-handed instrument, but if fiddling is all you’re interested in, you’re free to choose. I suggest it would be very well worth while for a leftie to have a fiddle rejigged and learn to play left handed.
However it is true that the violin will have been thicknessed to have the bass strings on the left side and may not sound so good with the strings reversed, even if the bass bar is moved. Maybe when you start to get good, you can ask a luthier make you a custom “leftie” fiddle.
Keep in mind a custom left handed fiddle made by a luthier is going to cost you close to $5k usd. The bow hand is important but lefties can learn right handed I’ve seen it many times, some of those fiddlers could play a loop around me.
I think that would depend on who you go to - to me that sounds like charged by someone who has made a name for themselves. There are plenty of good craftsmen and graduating students who could make you a fine fiddle for much less than that - I know someone who’d do a great job for about Cdn $1500.
Anyway I think it would be far far better to play to the best of your ability on an imperfect rejigged right-handed fiddle than to play ho-hum with your wrong arm on a better-sounding one.
I know two musicians who play wrong-handed, one mandolin, one fiddle. They’ve both been playing seriously for 15 years or more, and both are pretty handy on other instruments (one is a great flute player). I also once met a fellow who played right-handed for many years and relearned to play left-handed because of an injury to the right arm. All are, shall I say, unconvincing players, and I think I know why.
That said, I’d love to meet a decent sample of lefties playing right-handed fiddle. If a good proportion of them were what I judge to be good bow players, I’d happily concede that my theory is wrong. Until then I’m sticking to it!
Cheers
Steve
I came across a young girl playing left-handed fiddle in Miltown Malbay last year - she was reasonable for her age. I tuned her fiddle for her - that was a wierd experience! But I do know quite a few left-handed string players who play right handed with no problems and some of them very well. It would be the easier way of doing things as you don’t have to reset your fiddle and you can learn better from watching others.
As for taking up the fiddle, if you’re prepared to put in 1/2 hour - 1 hour practise a day, go for it. I know people who have taken up fiddle at older ages than you who are reasonable, although they’ll never be really good.
I’m going to be contraversial and say don’t take up the mandolin - the frets’ll totally mess up your intonation when you do move on to the fiddle and won’t make it much easier.
Jo.
Mark,
Do it! I am 47. I played no music for 28 years. I started with the Mountain Dulcimer 6 years ago and still play in a group. 3 years ago I started playing the whistles and play regularly in the group and for personal enjoyment. About 1-1/2 years ago I purchased a very nice fiddle on Ebay. I toyed with it but my obsession with the whistles and dulcimer were too strong. In February 2003 I really took to the fiddle. I bring it to work every day and play during lunch on a loading dock (very secluded… can’t be heard). I have about 35 songs under my belt and they are coming together rather nicely. I have also hooked up with a young Irish fiddler in St. Louis that gives me lessons twice a month.
If you have the desire, do it. Discipline yourself. Go out to www.madfortrad.com and consider purchasing their fiddle tutorial for ~$50.00. I did and it is well worth it. It takes you from the point of not even knowing how to read music.
Try to find a local fiddler that can help you with the basics of holding the bow and fiddle, fingering, timing, light ornamentation, etc. Please let me know about your decision and progress.
Tom
Please forgive me if I sound like a real a-hole, but this touches on a subject I’m a little passionate about…
Why, oh, why, oh, why, oh, why does everyone want to learn the freakin’ fiddle? As if the other instruments in the tradition aren’t worth their salt. I’ve noticed this problem especially in America and it drives me crazy. I hate going to a session where there are like 15 beginning to intermediate fiddle players and one other instrument, maybe just a guitar.
Fiddle is a hard instrument. Don’t play it because you like the way someone else sounds. That person may have a different background than you; she may even be more talented. She was probably immersed in it from an early age.
I like the fiddle. I like to play with fiddle players. But I don’t want to ever touch the thing.
MarkD, your profile says you’re from Chicago. Have about the flute? There’s Laurence Nugent. I’d love to have some lessons with him. (Flute is similarly hard starting off, but at least it’s not a fiddle. ;-D ) How about box? There’s John Williams. Really nice guy and a wonderful teacher.
Look, all I’m saying is that there are instruments other than the fiddle. I’m sure you’re well aware of that. But don’t take up the fiddle unless you’re willing to dedicate your life to it. There’s already a glut of fiddle players, proportionately. I don’t know that the world needs another novice Irish fiddle player whining for the next ten years about how hard the d*amn thing is. Get decent on the box or banjo and see if people aren’t beaming when you show up at a session. It’s so nice to hear different sounds!
The great thing about fiddle is that its palate is so broad. You can get so many different sounds out of it. That is also the hard thing. I think that if you haven’t grown up with it then the best way to go is to totally immerse yourself. Go to a session every night you can and just listen. Listen to recordings constantly. Get Alexander Technique lessons to get yourself loose and limber. Get lessons from a really good fiddle teacher. In Chicago find John Daly. He runs the Abbey session. I played tunes with him at a wedding of a mutual friend recently and he’s really, really nice. Great fiddle player. Don’t know if he gives lessons, but you should just go to that session and listen to him (It is an advanced session, so I wouldn’t suggest showing up with a fiddle if you’re just starting off). He’d point you in the right direction. I’d also suggest finding someone else who’s learning and buddying up with that person to help give each other inspiration.
But my first suggestion is to not play the fiddle. Play another instrument like the box, the banjo or stick with whistles. If you have someone to show you the ropes then concertina’s great. Not that those instruments are easy. They take just as much work as the fiddle to master. But to be a novice musician you’re going to have an easier time starting off. Easier’s not even the right word - maybe, less frustrating. My wife’s learning the box. In the first week she learned two tunes and they sounded great. No ornamentation and plenty of style to learn over the course of her life, but it didn’t sound awful. It sounded like an accordion. After playing the fiddle for years that feeling just filled her with joy. The biggest hump with the fiddle, I think, is that long time period where you’re going to have days that you can’t play a note that sounds like a fiddle should. People can stay at that point for years and years. It’s there with the flute too, I know from experience.
I think people can struggle with the fiddle for years and get really good and have grown as a person as well as musically. They probably wouldn’t trade that experience for the world. Great. Not everyone does that, though. Most people I know start off really enthusiastic, wanting to sound like Liz Carroll or Tommy Peoples. “How cool would that be?!” they think. Then the instrument totally whips their a$$. They drop out. Or they stay perpetual beginners. Or, they think they’re really cool and they learn a bunch of obscure Cape Breton or French Canadian or gMinor tunes and think they’ve arrived because no one else plays them and everyone tells them they sound good. Really they just sound different.
I know so many people who are really talented musically who have struggled with the fiddle for years. All I can think is that they would have had so much more fun with a different instrument. And I’d be having more fun playing with them.
So, my suggestion is to give the world a break and not support the tyranny of the fiddle. At this year’s Swannanoa Gathering there are only a few people signed up to take classes with James Keane on the accordion. Friggin’ James Keane!! That’s shameful. I guarantee the fiddle classes are filled up, though. They always are.
Sorry if this rant is a bit prejudiced. I really do love the fiddle; maybe we just have too many around here. Sometimes we have a whole string section…
But I really do think that plenty of really great traditional music doesn’t get played in America like it should because the fiddle is so popular. I also think a lot of fiddle music gets butchered by people who aren’t willing to put the dedication into the fiddle that they need to.
Despite the long anti-fiddle rant that I just posted I’d have to say that if you’re passionate about the fiddle and nothing else will do - then do it. But do it really, really well.
Wow! That was an impassioned response. A little shy on sleep, are we? 
The fiddle is a great instrument, and you don’t have to start learning it with the goal to play in professional sessions. A friend stopped by a couple of weeks ago and we had an impromptu session, and it was a blast.
Even after 5 months of playing (and practicing about 1 hour/day), when I sit down in the evening to play, my wife and kids will soon come in to watch and truly enjoy. It’s not THAT hard.
I am getting good at it because I enjoy the instrument and the versatility that it offers. Who knows, if Mark transitioned to the flute, he may play it but not really enjoy it, or maybe he would.
My Uilleann Pipes just arrived on Saturday. Even after “playing” for an hour, I was sounding like an expensive goose call! They’re what I would call a hard instrument. But I will learn them as well, because I love the instrument.
I personally don’t fee that I must “master” any instrument, but I do want to be very good on the ones that I am working on. Mark, whatever you do, as all of the comments previously suggest, it will take work, much practice and patience, but have alot of fun in the meantime. Enjoy the journey.
Soli Deo Gloria
Interesting post, Jerball. Fiddle is a great instrument so I don’t wonder at its popularity.
But, like you, I do wonder at why more kids don’t try their hand with the button box, especially since nice-sounding ones (like ciardin or saltarelle) are cheaper and easier to acquire than good violins, concertinas, flutes, or pipes. With some sensitivity on the musician’s part, they can be as expressive as any of the other instruments.
Jerball, thanks for the post. I play guitar and whistle but have always loved the sound of the fiddle. I realize what I am up against and am playing for myself so whether or not I ever come close to a John Daly (who I see periodically at the Abbey), it doesn’t really matter if I’m getting satisfaction from playing. This isn’t to say that I hope to mediocre but rather that I don’t have unrealistic expectations.
As far as taking lessons we, in Chicago that is, are also lucky to have Sean Cleland (sp?) of Bohola (and formerly the Drovers) as an Irish fiddle instructor at Old Town School of Folk Music. He also runs a beginner session class there. I’m not to the point of taking lessons from him yet but needless to say I can’t wait.
I
At least as expressive… actually in Baltimore, there seems to be a pretty good balance of players with the preponderance of instruments actually seeming to be weighted towards the Box. I think in large part that is because of Billy McComiskey, he not only is a great box player, but he is one of the driving forces of Irish Music in Maryland.
Note though if I am being strictly honest its probably the bodrain.. about half of the players at the weekly J.Patrick’s Thursday session seems to play the Bodrhain + another instrument (the other instrument being necessary because Peter Fitzgerald and the the other regulars at the session will keep the number of Bodrhains being played in check).
–
Bill
Perhaps what I’m encountering is more of a local phenomenon…We have some very fine fiddlers in the area.
Good to hear that the deficit is being made up somewhere.
Now, where are all the piping kids? Detroit? 