I played saxophone for a lot of my youth and so I found picking up whistle quite easy and then for a challenge I got a flute and have done ok with that. So I was trying to think of what I could get for Christmas. I’ve broken the whistle acquisition disorder and don’t need any more whistles. Pipes are very interesting, I love the sound, but they’re very expensive and wouldn’t be that much different from the whistle & flute as far as fingerings go. I’d like something chromatic so I can play jazz and other non-ITM music. I was planning on getting a silver flute but then my daughter started taking violin lessons this year and I just love the sound of the violin. Like the silver flute, the violin has good advantages:
plays in concert pitch so no transposing necessary (saxophone is a bit of a pain for this, although I have found a C soprano sax available which is very tempting)
plays chromatically making it suitable for all music
I’ve been playing my daughter’s 1/2 size violin and it isn’t as hard as I imagined, but I have a hard time fretting the strings on such a tiny instrument. So I’m debating getting my own. I enjoy learning new instruments and I help my daughter practice her violin almost every day so I’m learning violin (unintentionally) as a result. Which is pretty cool. The other day my daughter said “Why don’t you just get one so we can play together?” I currently play my flute (Copley Delrin keyless) with her but I know soon she’ll be in other keys and I won’t be able to do that.
All that was long-winded and what I’d like to know is if there are any flute or whistle players who got a violin and if so how did you get on with it? From what I gather, most tunes could be played using only first position and don’t seem that difficult to play but I know getting a beautiful sound out of the violin will take a long time.
The other question I have is how much should I spend on one? I haven’t went to visit a luthier yet but I did read up on some websites of the luthiers in Paris and I saw one has a “set up” Stentor II model for 200 euros. This is a Chinese brand that has an ok reputation and the luthier puts good strings on it and adjusts it, so this seems a safe route to go. A Yamaha silver flute would be 700 euros minimum and a Yamaha saxophone over 1k, so I’m wondering if I’m kidding myself thinking the 200 euro violin would be decent. I really don’t know. Violins seem a lot simpler than flutes & saxophones. I’m wondering if I should expect to spend an equivalent amount on one or not. I don’t know how serious I will get but at the same time I’ve never been one to buy super cheap because I figure I’d end up replacing it for something better if I did.
Hopefully a fellow whistle or flute player will have a similar experience, if so I’d love to hear your story. Thanks.
I see a lot of value in taking up the violin to encourage your daughter. I’d been working on the violin on and off when my daughter started Suzuki violin lessons. I never felt I had much facility with it, but having me play, too, helped keep her motivated. She left me in the dust 'round about age six. You’re likely to last longer than I did. Conversely, as you’ve already discovered, her violin lessons are going to help you learn; that wouldn’t help you with any other instrument.
As for instruments, I think the price point that defines decent starter instruments is around $350 - $400 here. Direct translation puts that around 300 euros, but there may be market considerations I don’t know about. If you get serious about it, it may not be too long before you’re shopping in the 1000 euro range.
For myself, I’m more comfortable on the whistle than I ever was on the violin, 'though there is some of the repertoire I miss.
I’ve been playing fiddle tunes for many years on banjo and dulcimer, so when I saw an advertisement for a professionally setup student violin for under $200 I bought it. 4/4 size with bow and case made in China. I don’t take lessons but play a hour a day sometimes two. It’s a fun toy to play with. I have no illusions of being a great fiddle player. There is a great line from an old Kentucky fiddle tune that inspires me. " I tune up my fiddle. Rosen the bow. Make myself welcome. Wherever I go"… I hope I will be able to do that someday… Bob
When I read the thread’s subject, I was about to suggest the mandolin, which is also nice and portable, chromatic, and none of the bowing to learn. However, since you’re already playing your daughter’s fiddle and doing OK, I’d say go for it. Down the road, if you want to try something a bit different, I’d still suggest the mandolin- by then you’ll already know the fingering.
Like Paul, I too was going to jump in and suggest mandolin. But playing and encouraging your daughter is too noble a pursuit for that. How much to spend? How much have you got? LOL! I will say that I’ve tried my hand at violin several times and have owned instruments in the $200 - $600 range. Because it’s such a widespread and popular instrument you can get something good enough to start on in that range, but if you catch the bug be ready to spend a lot more. Definitely go for it and have a blast! Good luck.
I don’t have any answers for you, but I always wanted to learn violin. I dabbled a bit with bass guitar as a teen and I remember finding it kind of difficult. I’ve always played woodwinds since I was 11. I wonder now if I returned to a string instrument as an adult if I would find it easier or even more difficult than before.
It would be nice to play an instrument that doesn’t require wind power, if only for the simple reason that frequently when I’m practicing, my significant other likes to come in the room and ask me a question and then gets annoyed when I don’t stop the passage I’m on to answer. Being able to speak and play at the same time, what a novelty that would be! Plus, he has taken up the mandolin again, and I’d imagine there would be some overlap there, so that would be fun.
I encourage you to go for it. I grew up naturally drawn to a lot of different hobbies in the arts, and my parents were not on the same wavelength at all. I think I would have progressed a LOT more if either one of my parents had encouraged me. I took music lessons for a few different instruments, and every time, it was my idea and my parents never really reminded or pushed me to practice. If one of them had played as well, that would have been so inspiring to me. And imagine the quality time you’ll have with your daughter, I’m sure those are memories she will treasure. I’m sure she’ll eventually get to a point as a teen where hanging out with dad isn’t as high on her priorities list, so you might as well get that time together while you can.
" I tune up my fiddle. Rosen the bow. Make myself welcome. Wherever I go"
I love that quote. So cool.
Thanks everyone for the encouragement.
For those suggesting mandolin.. I thought of that and actually got a baritone ukulele for my birthday a few months ago. I got it to strum, I didn’t really intend to learn to play melody on it. And strumming has been a lot of fun. I tried to play scales on it and it was confusing to me because I kept thinking “I know the strings on violin so why not just play violin”. I can see where mandolin would be good for someone who already knew the violin strings. But I really like the bowing aspect of the violin and being able to sustain notes.
Regarding the C tenor.. aquilasax is the maker of the C soprano I was thinking about. I’m just not sure of the quality of the sax. I still have my alto sax so I’d probably get a soprano just to be different. I find the alto takes a lot of breath, I’m used to whistles & flutes now.
I’m going to try to visit a luthier in Paris after work one day this week and see what they propose. I kind of feel like this is a racket. So many choices.. Chinese, Korean, Romanian, German, fake German (Romanian with German varnish marketed as German), and then French.. It will be interesting to see what they say. I’m hoping that since I’m not playing classical that I won’t need an expensive one. My daughter’s (a rental, Shimro which is korean) seems nice to me and I’d be happy with that quality.
Thanks for all the feedback. I’d still like to hear from more whistle/flute players who dabble on violin.
I play flute mostly (rarely whistle), and I picked up fiddle few years back but stopped, as I decided to focus on accumulating more tunes on flute rather than spreading myself too thin learning too many instruments. Not to long ago I started on the fiddle again after feeling more comfortable on flute. Since I already know enough tunes, it’s a matter of scratching them out of the fiddle. It’s not to bad really but I’m not up to session standard yet. I mostly practice at a slower pace because bowing can be tricky in the beginning and I don’t want it to sound rushed. Still trying to find the right tone as well. Also, getting a good tone on flute would’ve taken me some time too so it’s just practice, practice, practice on the fiddle. I’m still working on making my left pinky strong enough to press down on the strings for notes in the correct spots. I’ve only ever used it for the G# and long Fnat key…and this is a whole new picture.
I’m enjoying it heaps so I’d say go get a fiddle. I spent as much as my budget would allow…it was about $250 for the set-up. I have the Stentor 2 as well - but I had the pegs, soundpost, and bridge fixed. And I changed the strings. I used the bow that came with the set up until half a year passed by and I got fed up with it and went and bought a new carbon fibre one…it made a difference! This will probably be good for a very long time. Once I start sounding better, I can justify my practice with buying a new fiddle!
The good thing about the fiddle is that I can still play even if I have a cough/cold. It’s real hard to play flute with a tickle down your throat! The downside is that I can’t blow my lungs out with the foot stomping Bucks! There are some tunes that I only ever want to play on flute!
Regarding the bow … I recently picked up a K. Holz fiberglass bow for about as cheap as it is possible to get a bow. It is so nicely balanced in the hand, it is a joy just to hold it. On my fiddle, the tone might be a bit harsher than the old wood bow if you listen carefully, but the old bow is in such sorry shape that anything would be more playable. K. Holz also makes a modestly-priced carbon fiber bow. I considered it, but the fiberglass felt about the same, and produced a slightly nicer tone. Both are excellent value for the money, if they are available where you are.
I went to two luthiers in Paris on my way home from work. They had similar offerings. The cheapest they had was a chinese kit (case & arch) for around 400 & 500 euros respectively. The 500 euro one did not have an attractive varnish at all. Basically it was ugly. that could have been a sales tactic though, showing me an ulgly one to get me to spend more for the pretty one? I wasn’t expecting the entry level to be so high. The next higher quality was around 600 euros (700 euros for the kit) and they were nice looking.
There is another luthier in paris who advertises Stentor II violins for 190 euros on his website. They’re about 150 mail order so for the extra 40 euros you get it set up and new strings. I plan to visit him next but he’s a further away from my work.
At this point I’m not sure just how much better a 400 euro Chinese violin would be over a 190 euro Stentor Chinese violin. It’s hard to shop for these because we really can’t compare them. They all sound great to me. I think it would take me a year before I could learn to appreciate a nicer violin. So the question is spend 190 euros now and upgrade later or just spend 700 now and hope I like it and stick with it.
I don’t know what the practice is there, but in this neck of the woods, any reasonable luthier expects that you will want to take the instrument home to try it out, certainly when you get up to some of the prices you’re talking. Some of them also rent out instruments in their less expensive lines, and even give you a purchase credit for a good chunk of the money you pay in rent. Is that an option?
Can your daughter’s teacher offer any advice on violin selection?
They didn’t mention any trial period but since thomann and other internet stores give you 30 days, I think they should do the same. One of the stores does rentals. it’s 15 euros/month and if you buy they apply 3 months rent towards the purchase so that’d be 45 euros. minimal rental is 3 months. the second store said renting isn’t a good deal. if I rent a cheap chinese instrument for 1 year, that’s 180 euros which is the price of the stentor II and half the price of a 400 euro chinese violin. they said to buy it and if I don’t keep up with it, resell it. that made sense too. so rental makes sense to me for 3 months or so but not for more.
my wife takes my daughter to her violin class, so I never see her. Her advice at the beginning of the year was to go to a luthier and one of the two I went to was the one she recommended. I don’t know how it is in the US or elsewhere but here no one wants to promote buying a violin online. and I have a hard time buying from a luthier when I don’t know the brand or anything else. that makes it impossible to compare and shop around.
I started out on classical violin (and some “folk”, or course) and then got sucked into the flutes/whistles/pipes addiction. Anyway, from what it sounds like, you will absolutely love the violin. Of course, there will be some rough times, especially when you’re learning the basics and such, but once I got beyond that point, I found the violin to be just a breeze. I can just pick it up and play. And plus, it involves almost your entire upper body, so once you really get the techniques and all, and its not awkward, you really feel a connection with the instrument and the music you’re playing. It’s the only kind of instrument that I’ve found that can do that, except maybe the pipes. But, its very rewarding and its a ton of fun, so I wish you luck.
A couple months ago, I ran across this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SFaCpYRMKB8 and when I saw your situation, I thought of it. I’m not sure of the full value/potential of that violin, as I haven’t played it in real life, but from the video, it seems like it should fit your purposes fairly well. But, beware that with instruments that cheap, the guy in the video could have just gotten the lucky violin. However, if you do end up getting it, I personally would look at the “related items” and choose one without paint. Paint can do weird things to the sound of a violin. However, if you have the money, and can try an instrument around you before you buy it, definitely do that before going for something online. Anyway, that’s my 2 cents.
Cheap fiddles can lead to FOAD. fiddle obsessive acquisition disorder… Once I tune a fiddle I like to keep it in that tuning. But in the course of a day I will want to go between aeae..to..adae. then down to ddad and aeac#… Then there’s all the G tunings. You can see how one fiddle like one whistle just won’t do… Bob
You might want to consider a used instrument, if you can find someone with some experience (perhaps your daughter’s teacher would have a recommendation) to help you out. Unlike flutes or guitars or whistles, where the forum can point you to reliable makers and choices, there are so many fiddles out there and so little standardization and so many variables–what strings?, what bow?–to the sound, that it really pays to have someone around who can suggest and try out an instrument. But a violin teacher might know of a decent instrument available from a student who has moved on to a better one or just quit, and you’d be spared the mark up of the music store. Whatever you get, having a set up done by a good luthier will be money well spent. (As for rent to buy, I’ve done it twice. The first time, having rented a not good violin from a school music dealer, I ended up owning a different, but not satisfying instrument from the shop. The second time, working with a private dealer who specialized in better instruments, I ended up buying with the rental credit the one I was renting, and I don’t see myself ever switching.)
I ended up ordering my violin from a French luthier who works out of his home. Lots of people were very pleased with his violins, which are imported from China, and they are supposed to be better value than what one finds in the luthiers boutiques in Paris. I say “supposed to” because it’s really hard to compare them without having both at the same time and having the skills to do so. I should get it any day and I’ll have my daughter’s teacher check it out after the Christmas break. I’m really looking forward to learning violin. I ordered Matt Cranitch’s book and will find a teacher nearby to take a few lessons to get me going.
I bought a Chinese fiddle about 15 years ago for $100. I switched from Irish flute to American fiddle about 5 years ago when our Irish session disappeared. A friend of mine who played Irish fiddle once told me that to play fiddle you must embrace your suckiness. So I’ve tried to learn with that in mind.
I have no illusions that my instrument is good. A good player can make it sound like a real fiddle so I know the bad sound I hear is mostly me. I’ve noticed over time that it sounds better than it used to. I don’t know if that’s the fiddle maturing or me being better at it, but the quality of the sound is better than it used to be.
I had a chance to play a different fiddle last week and I thought it sounded a lot better than my cheap Chinese fiddle but the action was too high and the strings too close together. So I’m happy to put up with the sound of my fiddle to not have to struggle with the strings.
I figure since I’m not playing classical violin and being expected to wrench emotions from my music, my el-cheapo fiddle is okay for now. Probably my most important criteria for a fiddle is that it be easy to tune because we tune the strings differently depending on what key the tune is in.
There is something satisfying about playing the fiddle. It’s not easy to learn, but there’s something fun about pulling the bow across the strings.
