A new find for the catalogue! (yes, i updated the list last night…soon…very soon…for the web again!) 2947 (No15 Piazza…though they mismark it as No16 Plaza)
The sale is the 18th…not a bad Rudall, with certificate in the lid.
forewarn: has 3 pewter plugs in the foot, though the Eb usually works fine on these. (i have one now and no issues)
Lot #408, with grease pot.
Case is a bit ratty … but the certificate appears intact.
dried cork
Best guess on what it will get: 1500-2000 GBPs …not counting the additional charges.
Yes David, I have it too, saw it a few days ago. The case looks damaged but fixable. I asked for a condition report and received this: “Description: English rosewood flute by and stamped Rudall & Rose, no. 16 Plaza, Covent Garden, London, no. 2947, case, total length 648mm, sound length 580mm (a.f). Condition Report:
Head joint and back hole joint crack, some damage to keywork, personal viewing essential.”
Seems that the head joint is also cracked. I thnk you can see one repaired crack in the photo. Not sure what they mean about the back hole joint crack, prehaps they mean a crack through the embouchure? It does look like one key block is broken, and/or at least one key is bent or broken. Then there’s pitch to consider sounding length 580 mm, prehaps that’s ok depending how one blows? Could be a worthwhile fixer-upper for someone with the expertise. “Personal viewing essential” sounds a little ominous though
Then there’s Karlton Hester’s R&R 4866 for sale, if the price is right. Now this R&R 4866 looks pristine and ready to play straight out of the box
I am sure this has been discussed before, but what do board members think is driving down flute prices so dramatically? I used to think it was either the economy or that traditional music’s baby boomer fan base is getting older and probably less inclined to buy more instruments unless they see something truly extraordinary. But my latest theory is that when Ebay was new, people suddenly had access to all sorts of flutes they had only heard about and many collected ones that they soon realized were not as good as what they already had. So they first stopped buying and then tried to sell some until they realized they could not get back nearly what they paid. Still, you would think an R & R in that range would go for more than 750 pounds.
Several factors: The Riverdance inspired irish music boom petered out some years ago, and as such the influx of new people wanting to learn the music on the flute is reduced. Add to this the usual percentage of people who move on from playing any music or instrument over time.
Also, back in the 90’s and 2000’s there were still relatively few makers of simple system flutes for ITM, so demand was high and supply short. This had much to do with the high prices antique flutes were bringing because your choices for fully keyed flutes from modern makers were very limited (compared with today) and waits were often years long.
These days we have very many flute makers, with more popping up every year, but with less demand for flutes. Wait times are down, even for brand new, tuning adjusted to modern pitch 8 key flutes, and there are also far more out in the market place used than there were 20 years ago because makers have been cranking them out at a steady rate for the last 10-15 years.
So, lower demand and much more supply than ever before in the modern era. Prices were bound to fall.
I am sure this has been discussed before, but what do board members think is driving down flute prices so dramatically?" Libraryman.
Can only speak about England, Ireland & Sweden - I think the present economic situation does play a part, and that folks in general don’t have money to spend on stuff that isn’t absolutely essential. There are two keyless Olwells that have been on sale for a few days now on C&F with no buyers. Also many of us who have been into Irish trad for some years have already acquired the flute or flutes we need, and unless we’re into collecting, or some special example turns up as you mentioned, then our interest isn’t aroused enough to compete and drive up the prices of flutes at auctions or on E-bay.
Younger musicians entering the world of Irish trad probably start off with a modern keyless/keyed flute with modern tuning which does the job and they don’t have a pressing desire to own an elderly Victorian instrument. I think that prices for Rudall flutes will rise again as the economy gets better and/or incoming flute players become interested in vintage flutes. Also as Loren said there is a large supply of good second hand modern flutes available.
I followed the R&R 2947 auction live online with interest, but could refrain from bidding as 2947 obviously needed repairing and I have a good working Rudall as my regular flute.
Having been buying and selling Rudalls for quite a few years, I can say that they indeed run in cycles, though the 750GBP price on this one startled me. That’s one of the lowest prices I’ve seen in quite some time.
Nevertheless, I think bona fide playable Rudalls with a solid provenance is still an appealing instrument.
How and when that market niche percolates upward again is hard to say, but I don’t agree that’s it on the bottom.
There are a number of buyers and sellers who operate independently of eBay, which occasionally shows a good Rudall, but for the most part is already tapped out. Auction houses too are become passe.
Many Rudalls have remained unsold for a while now, and what doesn’t help is the player who would have considered acquiring one as a place-holder for their on-order flute senses they might not be able to sell that flute quite so easily, nor perhaps for the dollars they’ve invested in them.
Thing is that while vintage flutes prices have dropped perhaps more than those of other instruments, vintage or just plain old used guitars are way down too. --At least on Ebay. Interesting that you seem to be saying buyers have moved on from Ebay and auctions. There was an article in the local paper about a guitar that was going to be auctioned and would go for more than $30,000. I told people who asked me about it that it wouldn’t go for more than $7500. It didn’t sell.
Who saw this one? It was only on eBay for about 3 days, then taken down early. Presumably either the vendor was wised up as to what he had and decided to sell another way, or someone wangled a back door job… (Grrr!) Needed some TLC, but a cracking (!!! ) example. Should be a super player for some lucky person once restored.
Sorry about the oversized images - just snagged from eBay, no time now to download, manipulate, repost…
I don’t kow why the crown of the plain head is missing in the first shot - it’s clearly there in the other one! More photos on eBay. Lovely double head load both sides case with certificate. Dunno what the silver ?beaker is/is for???
Radcliff, I’m am guessing you sent the seller a question through ebay?
Of course it would be difficult for the seller to reply if they still have it as if ebay pick it up they might take action on the seller?
I was going to bid on that one! I was initially worried by the very short ebay history of the seller and the fact that the photos did not include a picture of the serial number or makers mark. So I exchanged some email with the seller (via ebay) and she promptly took and posted additional pictures with the serial number and makers mark. But then the listing just disappeared, with a note saying that the flute was no longer available! Damn!
Aye, saw the flute four days ago and added it to the list. The short E-bay history of the seller and the nearly identical presentation of the flute to that of the Australian flute (Rudall 2947) that sold August 24th worried me too. Was intending to bid but….
See also now in one of the newly added photos that the patent head has cracked right through the embouchure hole which makes it a lot less interesting for me. I don’t mind cracks in a lined head joint or barrel if there is no air loss, however from what I understand a patent head joint repair is not for the faint hearted, and a crack through the embouchure hole will probably affect playability. There is also the risk that 4871’s patent head mechanism is not functioning as it should. So this will cost extra to put right if the flute is to be played. Couldn’t see the crack in the other head joint but it’s not on the back of the head joint judging by the photos so maybe this is also cracked through the embouchure hole? I hope not.
It’s still a nice kit with the original box with lid still attached and numbered certificate, two heads. What’s the strange silver thing stuck in the box? Could it be a silver anti-allergy band to slide over the cocus wood embouchure or is it an extra large deluxe grease pot? Prehaps someone made a sneaky offer she couldn’t refuse? Still it’s nice to see these unknown Rudalls pop up out of the blue
Hello Jem, I was suspicious of this from the outset. In the body of the text it asked for the buyer to wait for an invoice rather than paying with Paypal stating that the seller would give instructions on a bank transfer. On the standard instructions it stated that Paypal was the method of payment. If this is genuine why would any buyer risk an Ebay/Paypal guarantee (such as it is)?
) example. Should be a super player for some lucky person once restored.
