Rudall & Rose Flute 15 Piazza, Covent Garden for Sale 1331

well, you’re right, maybe starting with £1,4k would be a better choice. Still if the head is in perfect state… (looks like new…)

Yeah - I got a bargain with #2130, for sure - £2.5k for an exceptional flute which “ought” to have pulled considerably more. But as we keep saying, the market is depressed. I don’t suppose there will be any takers for Conor Moloney’s in-playing-condition Wylde “from R&R” currently on eBay (as discussed elsewhere here) at his asking price (£3.25k), although a few years back it would have probably gone for that. There’s another Wylde on offer here on C&F, of course. I know where there’s a Rudall-quality Fentum (fully overhauled, all original kit, in playing condition and a vouched-for good player) available for c £2.2k.

I don’t write this in a “price policing” sense (and yes, I’m aware the OP/vendor has linked this thread in his eBay listing), but to try to help/guide the OPs expectations realistically. (Disclaimer: I absolutely am not in the market myself currently - I will not be bidding on this flute either for myself or as a proxy.) The OP’s flute is very worthwhile and desirable but taking account of what I know about prices achieved from the record of R&R sales I’ve been keeping for a few years now and also allowing that this flute probably needs at least £500 worth of restoration work given the missing keys, I agree with those who have commented or implied that a starting price of £1.8k may be rather optimistic and I suspect it may put off any bids. Don’t be fooled by the high number of “watches” the item will attract. I too think a starting price of c £1.2-1.4 k would have been tactically wiser.

On another aspect, if Radcliff and I are right that the silver sleeve lower body socket reinforcement may be a R&R in house job (and even if it isn’t, so far as one can tell from the pics it is a very fine piece of work and probably of some antiquity), then Jon’s suggestion of ripping it off and restoring the wood, whilst technically sound, might not be the best-advised thing to do in terms of the instrument’s history and and its unique intrinsic value - especially if the sleeve repair is airtight and working well. It looks as though the body outer profile has been turned down so that the sleeve is flush fitting, and given its length the crack(s) it is a response to was/were probably quite long, and in all probability it/one ran into the G (R1) tone-hole.

Also FWIW, the keys are very similar to #2130 - the slightly deeper type of key cup, and the ivory stopper adjuster with graduated silver finial is also the same - pics here if anyone’ interested.

Well if it was a sterling silver sleeve, I might keep it, but the sleeve repair looks to be German silver to me, and a pretty sloppy repair, running the sleeve into the tone hole is a good indication that it is not a R&R repair… But it is moot, as I probably will not be restoring it.

Actually it looks like the sleeve is not even let into the flute, so it might be able to be removes without much damage, that would be the best choice. replacing the socket with new Cocuswood is a much better repair for socket cracks.

Jem, I’m very interested in knowing more about that “Rudall-quality Fentum” you mention above. Photos? Who has it? What materials? Any quirks?

Shane

hi people. Do these images help??

My Cameras not got good resolution so this is the best I can get.
If anyone wants any other closer photo’s please let us know.

same pics, bigger size here…

http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/8128/s4010001v.jpg
http://img715.imageshack.us/img715/9365/s4010003.jpg
http://img600.imageshack.us/img600/2506/s4010004.jpg
http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/4173/s4010002h.jpg

Edited: probably better just to have the links

PM sent.

They help somewhat, though being out of focus rather limits their usefulness. If your camera has zoom, try shooting from further away but zooming in more, or the other way around if that’s what you did before.

As far as they go, I think they bear out that the wood has been turned down to let the metal in flush with the original surface, and clearly the socket has been lined too, with the socket rim also covered, just like R&Rs original lined sockets (when fitted) usually are - so a pretty serious piece of metal work. Its quality is hard to tell from the fuzzy shots, but appears to me (with that caveat) to be excellent. It also looks more like sterling than GS to me, though that is hard to tell with any certainty even from ideal photos.

ok managed to get a better camera so here are some better images

and again but this time with some of the images right way up :tomato:

Gollum … Posting a ton of thumbnail images of your flute does not really help. Please figure out how to post proper links, reasonably sized. Or perhaps it’s time to simply correspond directly with the posters here who have expressed interest and assistance. Thanks. - Moderator

My apologies. I will endeavour to be more precise in future.

OK, seeing things a bit more clearly, the socket isn’t lined nor the rim end-grain covered. But the sleeve is flush-fitted and a tidy job.

I would also like to add a big thank you to all the posters, your help and information is very much appreciated.

If the item does not sell I may think about getting it restored, yes my lass, does play antique flutes, a boxwood or something like that and she’s worth it. :heart:

as links… (image shack makes it fairly straightforward)














Having manipulated the view looking into the lower body socket, I can’t see for sure, but it seems to me the crack is not quite in the line of the open tone-holes - seems to be on the long F key’s side of the spine line and to run on a slightly oblique line which would just miss the G hole. It looks to be held well shut by the sleeve.

Well my fellow, girls may come on go but flutes? Flutes are forever.

:thumbsup: :smiley:

Does she? Wow! That’s remind me an old story… I guess I’m getting old.. gosh!

Amazing truth! :thumbsup:

I don’t know if this aids the discussion or not but according to an ebay correspondence

".Bottom B keys linkage missing.Have you got these parts? Pads dont look great.Repair to middle section not really good.It encroaches on F finger.Will give trouble to seal.Has it been played recently?Is it in good playing condition?Nice to have original case,but V bad condition.Looks like it needs major overhaul,but there is enough of it there to be worthwhile…“Brass sleeve in tuning slide.Should be blackwood.only used brass in Rudall patent head”…“The linkage for B keys on the foot is a bigger problem.The repair to the bottom mid section,is at best clumsy in my opinion.I know from experience that this will leak if not now, definitely later on.We are talking about a valuable and potentially good flute here,but whoever buys this flute is speculating on what level of play-ability it will have.With this type of instrument everything in terms of dynamics is absolutely critical.I have played a few Rudalls,they are either fabulous,or as we say over here a pup”

well that’s the crux of it