thanks, perhaps old wood has something to do with it,
as suggested earlier?
Question:
We know that some of the best professional Irish flautists
are playing and recording on
Grinters, Aebis and Murrays, all Rudallesque flutes.
As there are good Rudalls still, and, unlike the Strad,
they are affordable, why aren’t Kevin and Harry and Chris
playing them? If the vintage flute is a flute-Strad?
This is all sour grapes, you understand, because
I can’t raise 6000 dollars…
jim…put down the crack pipe ole boy, it’s messing with yer mind.
"As there are good Rudalls still, and, unlike the Strad,
they are affordable, why aren’t Kevin and Harry and Chris
playing them? If the vintage flute is a flute-Strad? " Jim Stone
Jim has a point here, something I’ve wondered about myself. Prehaps it’s just preference, these musicians prehaps just happen to prefer modern flutes that play well, and are perfectly capable of expressing what they want to say, and how they want to sound.
Rudalls certainly made top quality instruments, and yes, they are affordable if you compare the price of one to that of a Cremona fiddle. Still even so if you can get a top quality modern timber flute for half the price that does the job, then why bother to chase after a Rudall and pay prehaps double or more just because it’s old and has a history, and that you have to keep a beady eye so that it doesn’t get stolen, or knocked off the table at a session. Of course a good Rudall is also an economic investment as well, this is true.
Just told the wife that a ‘good Rudall is an economic investment.’
She laughed and laughed. Where’s dat pipe?
Old Rudalls are still great bargains. They are still going up in value. Pre-war Martin guitars can sell for well over $10,000. Gibson F-5 mandolins from the 1920’s go for $100,000.We won’t even talk about old fiddles. Old Rudalls are undervalued.
There are plenty of great fluters who use Rudalls and love them. They are still bargains as antique instruments.
I still have a Rudall that I bought in 1989 and one that I bought several years ago from Tony Bingham. I can’t bear to sell them, even though I’ve sold others. There’s a tinge of regret at having let each one go.
Michael Flatley is no fool. He’s a great player and he plays a Rudall (he’s still collecting them) as does Cathal McConnell, Seamus Tansey, Jimmy Noonan, Christy Barry, David Migoya, Brendan McKinney, Catherine McEvoy, Frank Claudy and a host of wonderful players. Many of them own modern flutes as well, but they still play their old Rudalls. It all really starts with Rudall & Rose. They are reference points for what came after.
It’s about more than volume and tuning, isn’t it? There’s a reason some flute-makers have several antique flutes. When you learn to play an old flute you develop aspects of musicality that you won’t find playing a new flute.
jim, once in a lifetime opportunity here, you’ll may never see a rudall like this again… try another round of negotiations w/ the boss, you can sell off some of your other flutes if need be.
flute acquisition is not about ‘just’ another flute - but a lifestyle of dignity and honor, which unfortuantely has been discriminated against throughout history.
The values of original vintage instruments are usually substantially different from replicas of them. If a good replica of an 8 key Rudall by a talented contemporary maker will go for around $4500.00 US, then that would be what a vintage instrument dealer would call the “utility value” of the instrument. That’s what a good player’s instrument would sell for new, in other words. If you wanted a new fully keyed instrument to play, that’s about what you’d pay, more or less.
Years ago in the vintage guitar market there were players who complained that the original vintage guitars were being priced out of their reach by investors. At this point that argument is long gone; if you want a flamey '59 Les Paul to play you’re in the $300K price range; a good Gibson replica can be found for $4K. That price differential hasn’t really happened yet in the antique flute market, but it’s not unreasonable to think that something similar will happen eventually, as more people take up the wooden flute and get interested in the originals that flutemakers copy. This original Rudall is priced only 25% more than the utility value of the instrument. That might be a bargain, and a good investment. I don’t know, prices in the antique flute market will depend on demand, as they do in the vintage guitar market. There certainly aren’t as many flute players as there are guitar players, that should keep prices lower. But it’s not unreasonable to expect them to rise beyond a small percentage above the instrument’s utility value.
Just my 2 cents worth. -Dave Ogden
Hi Dave - good to see you here.
Kevin Krell
i was thinking the same thing !! hi…long time…
with due respect to Michael, I would never suggest that a good original Rudall is in the same league as a Grinter.
Quite the opposite:
A good Grinter is in the league of a good original Rudall, which invented the League.
dm
Well said. It follows that they are in the same league.
A Rod Cameron copy of Chris N’s Rudall costs 5700 dollars,
by the way–if the price hasn’t gone up.
Hello everyone.
I have mentioned to a few people who PMed me, that they can phone to hear the flute, and talk more. Id be delighted to do that. Yes Im asking for in the region of £3000. In the region.
I dont quite understand the earlier breakdown of repair costs that a member made. If you can get repairs etc.. done for that, then please pass on where!!! wow!
And, yes I am selling to fund the end of a recording. Believe me, If I didnt need to do this, there is no way that I would be going through this to sell this beautifull, old, amazing instrument. I thought when I bought this flute, that it would be one Id pass down through the family.
If anyone wants to talk on the phone about the flute, please PM. Otherwise, good luck and see you along the way.
Cheers.
I find this rather heartbreaking, actually…
M
this kind of discussions always bother me.
if you want an original R&R and have the money, buy it, if you want one and don’t have the money…save some.
who’s to say if it’s worth it or not?
i got one on ebay maybe 5-7 years ago, paid maybe around $5000, had Noy make a new head…probably put $1700 more into it…it’s a very unique R&R.
it’s my best flute, really has some quality that none of my other flutes have.
most of the time i play my other flutes, why? i’m not sure, but each time i play my R&R i can’t believe how great it is, because i’m so used and pleased with other flutes that i have, i don’t expect it to play nicer.
today, i could never afford it, i too, hope to one day pass it on to my kids.
i can imagine how hard it would be to come to a place where you need to sell an instrument that you like.
i sold a few, and still miss them, years down the road.
jim, just so you know - my R&R plays better then any other flute i have played, and i did play Grinters and others.
does it worth the money? yes if you have it.
I hope people won’t be bothered by these questions.
Trying to learn more about something of
considerable interest to me, certainly not questioning the
seller or the price. I started by saying the price
is reasonable. We have managed to keep the
add for this yummy flute (as I called it earlier)
at the top of the board for some time.
Thanks also for the info. I have used it to
try to persuade the wife that this purchase would
not only be a good investment, but would end
an ancient discrimination against victims
of anti-Rudall-purchasing prejudice. A brisk left
hook from my schnubie cleared my senses.
When the swelling goes down, I may try again.
Another question, if I may:
how high into the third octave were the old Rudalls
meant to play?
God, it’s lovely. Wouldn’t it have been a thrill to play Beethoven’s 9th on that?
Good luck, TF, and I’m so very sorry about the circumstances.
we’re proud of ye jim - sometimes you have to take a stand in life, even take a black eye or fat lip from the missus. (maybe wear a mouthguard next time you mention rudall and rose to her… wouldn’t want to lose the teeth now.)
Ma femme boxes, you may recall. I always wear a
mouthguard except when I play flute. Also I bob,
I weave, I do rope-a-dope. If I weren’t too old
I would be one of the great defensive middle weights.
Jeez I’m hard to hit!
Another question, if I may:
how high into the third octave were the old Rudalls
meant to play?
Anybody know? How high do these old suckers go?
Obviously they weren’t ‘session instruments,’
concentrating so much on the bottom two octaves.
Higher than A?