[ This Message was edited by: David Migoya on 2002-12-12 21:56 ]
My money’s on an eight-keyed Grinter in Red Lancewood or a nine-keyed Aebi in blackwood, either one in a Rudall model. Just my $.02…
Jamey.
Irish: an 8-key Hammie in African blackwood 
Boehm: I once got to play an original Rittershausen that was an incredible instrument.
Best,
–James
http://www.flutesite.com
I used to think my Holy Grail was a fully keyed Olwell. But then the blackwood Powell with a silver Boehm mechanism came into my living room (on trial). I did not want to love it. But I couldn’t let it go. I don’t think I could find one that suits me better. I don’t find it difficult to switch back and forth between Boehm and simple system fingering. My fingers just find their way(s).
Well, there’s pre-Holy Grail and then the Holy Grail itself… I’m due a 5-keyed Ormiston any day that I’ve been saving and waiting for quite a while now. That will do me in the trad. flute realm (for a little bit). I’m with Jessie, though, in my ultimate flute: a wood flute with Boehm guts.
Erik
A Chris Abell in blackwood and silver. I received it last December. Very few days have gone by that I haven’t enjoyed playing it. It is still unbelievably beautiful to look at and to play.
Chris Roberts
I had called a flute dealer in NYC to ask if he had an Abell flute (long shot) and he said no, but he had the Powell. I think the two (the Powell and the Abell) are very similar. I played an Abell when I visited Chris’s workshop. Man, I love wooden Boehm flutes!! So there all you trads! Just try to kick me out of a session. Hee hee.
I just got a Clinton ‘Equisonant’ (circa 1870), fully keyed in Cocus with the ‘spectacle’ vent system for the Csharp. Great machine, it would certainly qualify as my ‘Holy Grail’ if it had a bit more of an unholy growl.
It’s a lovely, true instrument- just lacks a bit of the power I prefer for sessions otherwise I would make it my sole instrument for playing on. There’s some interesting stuff on the model and the maker on Terry McGee’s website.
Regards, Harry.
Holy grail indeed. Some seekers reached enlghtenment in their search; for others, lives are squandered. For me, I remember the time when after selling a Haynes to finance a non-music related college degree, I was playing on a student model Artley. I resumed lessons with a skillful player and teacher and at our first session bemoaned the loss of the Haynes. She took the Artley from me and played the utter bejessus out of it. At that point I became a true believer. It aint what you play, it’s how you play it. That said, I still check out the flutes on ebay first thing every morning.
I think the “holy Grail” would constantly change. I play a very nice Hamilton keyless that I sometimes wish had keys and yet sometimes love for its simplicity without them, but I almost always wish I had a more Rudell-esque flute as well – a bit daintier, still with large holes, and fully keyed. And then there’s a quieter flute, for quieter moments, so smaller holed might fit that bill.
Point is, my moods change and my abilities change. I wanted a real session honker, got one, can now play it really well, and I often dream of something else - a Grinter, maybe, or a really good antique Rudall/Rose, and sometimes a top notch wooden Boehm.
Holy Grails are the stuff of legend, and as such, they don’t exist. Us flutin’ Quixotes just keep looking for more windmills; guess that’s the nature of the addiction.
I like the direction this thread has gone.
I think there is great value in the idea that the real Holy Grail is taking what flute you have and playing the hell out of it.
There is nothing wrong in the seeking of a finer instrument (says the fella who’s getting a Hammy one of these days), but if you think the flute itself will change how you play, you are probably new to the art, and you’ll likely be disappointed; fact is, you’ll probably encounter what I like to call The Curse of the Magic Flute:
This happens to younger Boehm-system players all the time. They start on a flute like an Artley and after a few years they are told by a teacher they are ready to move up. So they go get a $10,000 handmade Powell or Haynes or Miramatsu (etc, etc), the flute they while they were keyed up with nervous energy in the store played like a silken dream.
Then they bring it home, and reality sets in, as they discover they still sound much better on their old flute. The new flute was not designed to be easy to play; it was designed for its tone, range, projection, intonation…in short, the makers of such flutes assume that if you can get such a flute you are already ready to play it.
Now in such a situation if you put the old flute up, play the new flute rather you like it or not at first, weeks (or maybe months) later it’ll “click” and it will start to feel like a natural part of you. And at this point you’ll start to discover the things this flute does easily that the old one would only do with difficulty, if at all.
The point of all this? I play how I play. If I’m playing an M&E or a Hammy or even a handmade wooden Powell…it’s still gonna sound like James Peeples playing it. I sometimes need more swing in my playing, and neither the M&E or the Powell can give it to me. I sometimes need better air control or a steadier tempo, and guess what? The flute can’t me there either.
That said, I am looking forward to my Hammy in a big big way!!! (I never said I had to be logical all the time!)
Best to all,
–James
http://www.flutesite.com
[ This Message was edited by: peeplj on 2002-11-09 09:44 ]
There will certainly be instruments that will facilitate what way you want to play better than others in terms of tone and volume , but the gist of all this is correct - a well trained embochure should be able to make sense and create a variety of tones out of any good (and even in cases ‘bad’) instruments.
This is by no means a recomendation, but as I think I may have mentioned before some of the best IT flute music I have heard was played by Pat Mahan (Sligo) on one of those God-awful Asian Dessie Serry copies. He got an incredible tone out of it and skirted around the instrument’s weaknesses with skill and wit. Of course he would have been better off on another instrument from a technical point of view (ours that is),but he did’nt seem to care.
My Clinton will never be the ‘honker’ that the Murray is, but I’m glad it is’nt. As suggested earlier -Ideals are not permanent.
Regards, Harry.
Hi Folks,
If I could try any flute from any maker it would be a Keyed Copley. I’ve heard so many good things about Dave’s flutes but it’s unlikley I’ll ever see one never mind own one. I suppose that would be my “Holy Grail”
Erik,
interesting to see you’ve ordered an Ormiston. I’ve ordered a keyless with C foot which should be ready May/June next year. What made you decide on an Ormiston? I think you’re the only person on the forum besides myself getting one.
Cheers, Mac
Shoner,
The same EXACT thing happened to me. I had (and still have a couple of them) an old Artley upon which I had performed my first re-pad (fifteen years ago). I did a perfectly horrible job. In order to make it play I had to clamp down on almost all of the keys. I did develop strong fingers from it, but the flute death grip did nothing for my playing. Anyway, I was talking to a flute teacher and telling her how I was going to be getting a new flute so that I could play better. She grabbed it and said, “Why, I think that it plays just fine.” Hurrumph 
Erik
Mac,
Well, several things actually. First, about a year and a half ago he was getting good reviews here. Second, his price was hard to beat. Third, he’s a very nice gentleman. Fourth, they play incredibly. He happened to be staying at the same B&B as my wife and I last summer and I had a chance to try half a dozen of his flutes. Fifth, he is a craftsman. The flutes are solid and well built - though not too heavy. He uses silver for his rings and does a nice job with the tenons. His tuning slides are like butter, but they don’t slide when they’re not supposed to.
You won’t be disappointed! What made you choose one?
Erik
p.s. Oh yeah, his cases are a work of art, too. Doesn’t affect the playing, but it completes the package.
[ This Message was edited by: ErikT on 2002-11-09 18:09 ]
[ This Message was edited by: ErikT on 2002-11-09 18:13 ]
Hi Erik,
I had narrowed my choice down to a Copley, Hamilton or Ormiston. The Copley was’nt practical because of import duty to the UK, from what I’d read on the forum, the Hamilton required quite a lot of air. I could’nt find much in the way of reviews on the forum regarding the Ormiston but as there was nothing negative I gave him a call. In the end I simply decided to go for it, as they say, “fortune favours the bold”
Cheers, Mac
My holy grail? Enough talent to go along with any of the flutes that you have all named.
On 2002-11-10 18:36, Ronbo wrote:
My holy grail? Enough talent to go along with any of the flutes that you have all named.
Yeah, I’m on board with that! When I get to the point where I can do the flute that I have, the justice it deserves, then I’ll start dreaming of a Holy Grail. In the mean time, if I stumbled across a killer flute with 5 or 6 keys, I wouldn’t turn it down, I mean it’ll be a loooong time till my name comes up on Patrick O’s Keyed Flute list…
Loren
It’d have to be a two-pronged answer: First, a keyed Copley (I’ll probably be ordering a body from you this summer, Dave). For me, unless lightning strikes, that would be the last Irish flute I’d ever need. Then, a wooden Boehm system, either a coccuswood Rudall-Carte, or a grenadilla Powell, Haynes or Abell. Oh yeah, and either a Drelinger, Brannen-Cooper, McLauchlan or Straubinger wooden headjoint. Although I may have to try one of Mark Hoza’s headjoints…anybody have any experience with his? And I agree, it will be years and years before I ever use the potential existant in any of these flutes…but I CAN appreciate the tone they generate, and the exquisite workmanship in them (check out the Landell website for a real drooler of a headjoint…silver, engraved gold lip-plate and ruby-inlaid liprest…shiver). For right now, I’m awaiting my Gemmie M3S…that’s more flute than I have talent for at this point.
On 2002-11-18 01:27, Dave Parkhurst wrote:
It’d have to be a two-pronged answer: First, a keyed Copley (I’ll probably be ordering a body from you this summer, Dave). For me, unless lightning strikes, that would be the last Irish flute I’d ever need. Then, a wooden Boehm system,.
Ah, but Dave, this is about the Holy Grail flute. We are talking about the ultimate “what if lightening strikes” flute!
But then, you do go on with wooden Boehm system flutes, which are far pricier than the best of the conicals, so… I guess we all dream in different directions.
Now, if you were rich, would you stick to the Copley? Ya, might, Rabbit, ya might, but you might also pick up a few other makes as well..
And those’d be?