Rudall Carte & Co (23 Berners Street) no. 7229 - buy it now 4.000 USD
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Original-Rudall-8-Key-Irish-Flute-/320979864323?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4abbe40b03
Interesting as Rudall Carte & Co. no. 7103 is up for offers tomorrow in the Gardner-Houlgate auction: http://www.gardinerhoulgate.co.uk/Catalogues/mi140912/page3.html
Photo: http://www.gardinerhoulgate.co.uk/Catalogues/mi140912/lot0115-0.jpg
David Migoya is selling the one on eBay.
Did you get a condition report on the GH auction one? Otherwise, looks like the photographer didn’t think having any toneholes would be important. Or, for that matter, the foot keys cluster.
“Did you get a condition report on the GH auction one? Otherwise, looks like the photographer didn’t think having any toneholes would be important. Or, for that matter, the foot keys cluster.” Kkrell.
No nothing about the condition, but I think they are obliged to describe if the instrument is defect, cracked or unplayable, I don’t think they really know what they have here. The photos and info came up on their site at the last minute almost, not 2 weeks before an auction as stated. Looks like some clueless assistant just opened the box and took a quick snap. The flute is probably as found and doesn’t look to have been home-staged for the auction. A good chance here to get a R&C cheap if you’re into these old flutes. Estimated to go between 100-150 sterling, seems obviously under valued, but will probably go for a lot less than the R&C no. 7229 on E-bay.
in my -small- experience… they don’t care… at all.
Those estimates certainly mean nothing, as a look at completed auctions often show. Even the condition reports are not always either informative or accurate, although sometimes more pictures are included. There have been flutes shown in this way that upon examination of the additional photos have non-original joints, badly repaired cracks and chipped blocks, etc. An in-person preview can be critical; a condition report requested prior to auction is a 2nd-best attempt to catch hidden faults.
Here’s an example of info contained in a condition report that was not mentioned in the catalog of an R&R auctioned last year:
“Full length fissure close to embouchure in head joint. Same in barrel close to name stamp. Lowest two keys seized up.”
In another case, various repairs (of questionable quality) were listed as “restorations” or “renovations”
sold for 750 sterling
“750 sterling” = 1.208 USD
Pristine condition, no cracks or broken keys or blocks. Salt spoon keys and pewter C & C#. Keys look to be silver too
I actually registered for live bidding and got up (early here) and watched it go, but I didn’t bid. The cost could be a lot more than the 750GBP. There’s a 15% buyer’s premium and 3% to the live auction site, and I’m not sure about VAT and then there’s shipping, which has to be arranged by the buyer, not by the auction house. And money conversion, and I’m not sure you could use a credit card or you have to send it to the auctioneer’s bank, which cost ~$50 the last time I sent money to the UK. I think it would add up to more than 1000GBP. I suppose that’s still less than $2000, but it seemed kind of risky and I really should be selling, not buying.
Cindy
Still and all, it would be much less than $2,000. The price is closer to $1,460, plus shipping. For a vintage Rudall Carte this is a bargain, even if it should need some work. If it has silver keys it would be steal at that price.
Compare to the Rudall on Ebay now, at $4,000.
I think it could have easily ended up being over $200 for shipping and money transfer, but yes it probably would be a bargain. But I think the reason it would be a bargain is because there is some risk. I suppose someone here might have won it, but why didn’t people here bid it up higher? Its not like it went by like some without it being noticed. Perhaps I would have bid if I didn’t have a flute I’m happy with, but I was reluctant because it feels risky.
Perhaps the comparison to the $4000 flute on ebay is invalid because no one will buy it for that. There also was a way to bid beforehand, so it could have been done without the early morning thing with a little planning.
It’s 40 miles from me, but I couldn’t be bothered.
Well I bid on the flute against my better judgement really as I’ve never been that interested in old flutes. I think they are nice but over priced, and many seem to have intonation problems when played in 440 mode. Flutes by modern makers, Wilkes, Olwell, Murray etc. are just fine and do the job.
Just on a whim I set up an account late Thursday evening with the site sale-room.com so I could listen to the bidding during the live auction on Friday the 14th. Then the idea began to form, that prehaps I should bid, prehaps it would sell for a reasonable price. So I took an extra half hour lunch break, cycled home and started to watch the bidding starting around LOT 52. Lot 115, the R&C 7103 came up and I started to bid and imagine my surprise when I won the bidding. It just stopped at 750 sterling! I thought it would probably go for 1000-1200 sterling at least. Especially as I’d announced it here on the forum. I mailed G&H and asked about any cracks or defects, but didn’t realised until after the auction had finished that they had sent 5 pics of the flute, and it looks just fine, no visable repairs or damage.
Totalt it has cost 912 sterling inclusive auction costs. I sent the money off today, plus 32 sterling to deliver the flute by courier to Savile Row, London, where my daughter a tailor, works. She’ll keep the flute until my other daughter goes for a visit sometime in October and returns to Sweden with the flute as hand baggage. It’ll be interesting to see what I think of the Rudall. I’m curious as I’ve never played one before. It might not suit me at all. Apparently not all Rudalls are winners. If not then I’ll sell it on for a fair price as I got it for a fair price.
Congratulations, Steampacket. I hope you’ll be pleased with it. One point from posts above… it clearly has GS keys even from the poor catalogue photo and as one wouldn expect on a flute of ths particular vintage. It’s sounding length is a bit short, but unkess the C#- Eb length is also short, it should play well at 440, though maybe with quite a large slide extension.
compliments… I still expected to see it getting some extra bids as it looks to be in very good conditions. Well done!
Nice going Steamie. That’s a great bargain. I’m glad it is in your hands.
Julie…
Aye, well thanks David, Jem, Radcliffe. As stated it will be interesting to see how I get on with the flute. Just now I’ve been e-mailing almost non stop to get the logistics worked out as regards payment, delivery. Finally have it sorted thanks to having a daughter living in London who has both a Swedish and English bank account.
I can well understand the fascination with old instruments, something that has survived so long, intact, numerous wars and disasters. Queen Victoria ruled an empire when this flute was crafted, it’s all gone now. Still as said if I don’t get on with it I’ll pass it on. The flute is from Ginsberg’s estate, so I wonder if he played it or just had it laid away somewhere. Prehaps he got it from Paul Davies, or came across it during his rambles, or got it in part exchange for some pipes. I’ll try and contact him to see what he knows about it.
I’m glad you got the flute and it didn’t go to someone who doesn’t play. 
Congratulations! Perhaps you’ll find, as some of us have, that although the old flutes are slightly quirky, those very quirks add to the musicality of the whole experience. In their efforts to find Perfection, modern builders have taken away some of the soul (some of us might add). A flute as late as this one might even have a certain consistency to the tuning and feel that is lacking in earlier ones, though I’m quite pleased with my early flutes.
There is a reason why Rudall 8-key flutes command so much money, when there are thousands of cheap antique 8-key flutes that aren’t half bad. The great Rudalls are so in tune, and have an exquisite tone, that really is superior to most (but not all) other antique flutes from the era.
Please report back once you have the flute in hand! You got, as you know, a great deal. The flute on ebay is fairly priced too. As other people have pointed out, anyone who buys an instrument like this is taking on a risk, and there is no shame in selling for a profit too. Just as often as getting the good ones, risk-takers get the bad ones. And the good ones often require significant repair and coaxing to be brought back to life. Basically as long as people are reasonable and thoughtful, it all works out.
“Please report back once you have the flute in hand!” apossible world.
Well, the courier has the flute now and said he will post it to my daughter, today or tomorrow. On Saturday the auction house and the courier who will pack the flute were paid. Hopefully the flute will turn up in London by Friday. So the waiting begins although I’m used to that. My Murray keyless has been in Sam’s workshop now since I left it on July 4th, 2011. Sam said 2 weeks to repair the cracked barrel
definitely the wrong two weeks
