What makes this flute tick, though, is the embouchure. A large cut unlike many rudalls.
Interesting - my 5000 series medium hole / bore Rudall & Rose headjoint also has a large slightly oval embouchure hole, which I really believe accounts for the beauty of the sound. Neither the original headjoint that came on my Wylde, or a Wilkes headjoint I bought from someone on this board, produce a sound that compares. Since they are virtually interchangeable, I’ve taken to playing the Wylde with the Rudall headjoint, which is great as I don’t have to change my embouchure to play a different flute.
Seems as though there are lots of Rudall’s coming out of the woodwork these days…
They come out in bunches, I’ve noticed.
I just recorded three others in the past two days (not from sales, but people approaching me). One is in the 1000-series we’ve been speaking about.
They are out there. As I say: All Rudalls come home eventually.
They like to congregate in the catalogue.
There was some debate in the 1800s about the large embouchure holes. Critics said it caused poor habits since the strength of embouchure was less taxed. Proponents believed it allowed anyone the chance to play the instrument with reasonable tone.
That’s probably why you see smallish holes and larger ones. The small ones really need the lip.
My favorite embouchure (more than any Rudall or Olwell or Pratten or what not that I’ve got) is the large round embouchure on my Clementi-Nicholson. Marvelous. But that’s my preference, I suppose.
Just curious, I have a 4000 series R&R (4117) which I absolutely love. I am anxiously awaiting a new HJ from Partick Olwell (ordered mostly to adjust the tuning down somewhat), but what I really want to know is what people might have to say about the flutes in this series. Any comments would be welcome. Thanks, Arbo.
Arbo,
the rudall & rose flutes were designed and built by the best makers of the 19th c and each section made to exact measurement for each flute so that the flute is in tune with itself on each octave, rudall & rose flutes have a distinctive rudall & rose sound with some
r&r flutes varing a little bit this way or that ( large hole versus medium hole)
If you get a headjoint made for your flute, it is going to sound just like that makers flutes with a little difference because of the r & r bore, but it will certainly not sound like a r & r flute, you may really like the new sound and not want to go back to the original headjoint, I would be very interested in how it sounds with the new head,
Glinjack,
it’s been over two years since I ordered the HJ. At that time I had one of Patrick’s hj’s and played it on my R&R for almost a month. You are correct that the sound was very different. In fact, I did much prefer the tonal qualities of the original hj at that time. I decided to go ahead with the new hj because of the sharpness of the instrument and the fact that I needed to pull the hj out so far to play at A=440. Two years ago I was playing a hj that Patrick had lying around his shop and happened to work with my flute. The new hj has been adjusted and fit to the flute. I know it will drastically change the sound of the instrument (louder, flatter, etc.). This is fine for sessions. Should I ever record with the instrument I plan on using the patent head, most likely pushed in to a comfortable position (albeit sharp…). I’ll keep you posted.
i own two r&r’s in the 4xxx series. both play at a440. one is small holed and the other more like medium holes and has a bigger embouchure and the tuning slide has to be pulled out a little further for me, almost to the end of outersleeve. but it still maintains solid tone.
wilkes hj and olwell hj both work well on it, both bring a little more depth to the two octaves and also make it a little easier to play in tune. personally, i like the original hj better. i like the tonal colors from it, how it plays and responds - maybe i am just biased.
i have not tried any other hj on the smaller holed flute. the socket/tenon is different size and not as easy to fit. that embouchure is really nice and tight so i don’t care to try anything else on it.
hope that helps.
if i were you, i would try to find a hawkes and sons pratten perfected, pinned mounted keys. i bet that would be a dynamite flute. unfortuantely for me, i can’t afford one right now.
Arbo, the flute you got on ebay looked really nice, it was a great price for it as well, i’m really happy the auction is over
i have a R&R in the 4K series (4932), and Peter Not made a second head for it.
i like the original, but i asked Peter for a deeper chimney and his modern cut embouchure (a bit smaller in size then his usual), he also added his cutaway and insert.
i love that flute with the Noy head, it has such a tight and complex tone, it sounds like an oboe, or some other double reed instrument.
eilam.
Eilam,
I’ve had the new Olwell hj for a few days now. Played it at a session the other night and several people came over to me and commented on the flute
(not necessarily my playing-what’s up with that?). Anyway, I haven’t put the original hj back on yet-thought I’d play the Olwell for a while and get used to it. The flute is definately louder, very in tune, and plays easily. It’s funny- I played a couple of slow airs on the flute and happenened to use some vibrato, and a piper.flute player friend commented that I shouldn’t use the vibrato as the flute had such a nice tone when played straight. Okay, so everyone’s got an opinion… I’m sure I’ll have one shortly!
i had a chance to visit last week with Frank Claudy, who plays a 4700-series Rudall that is outstanding.
It’s a patent head with a plug Eb. But it’s a large hole flute that plays very well.
dm
Be careful with this one. It could turn out to be a good player but it will never be a “collectable” flute. The C key blocks have been replaced by a metal bracket. The long F key doesn’t seem to be there (broken blocks?). There are cracks on the barrel which, if not repaired, will make the flute difficult to play. It probably has a patent head, which could present still more problems. Can the foot joint be separated from the lower heart joint? The flute could play sharp and the embouchure hole might not be clean. The metal band around the mouthpiece could be disguising alteration or holding a cracked HJ together.
It could still be worth a bid as a project flute. The case looks like the original one from that period.
Hopefully Dr. Migoya will share some of his expertise.
I’ve studied this flute for a few weeks. The owner located it in his family for many years and opted to reach out to the RudallRose catalogue (www.RudallRose.com) for inquiry.
It is indeed a 7 key Rudall with no long F. How do we know? The cases are typically custom fitted with space for the long F key touch. This flute does not have that type case. It goes from sub-heart ring to foot ring tightly.
There are barrel cracks, yes, as well as someone’s twisting at the silver band near the embouchure. It is indeed a Patent Head flute, which means heavy heavy.
My advice to the owner included full disclosure to anyone on eBay (which he apparently hasn’t done for the 7 key issue). I’m sure he’d like to get as much as the PH flutes that have sold in recent weeks (>$2k), but this one is in dire need of some heavy lifting.
Unless you are a PH fan (of which I am not), then I’d consider the cost behind a new head piece. I believe Mr. Arbo on our board here recently acquired one, so he would know the time/expense involved.
In all, this flute probably needs about $1200-1500 of work. But that’s my uneducated guess.
A contributor to this thread recently purchased a flute of which I was acquainted and got to analyze (and make an offer on) before it hit ebay. Turns out the owner wanted to make “much more money” on eBay. Sigh.
The winning bid turned out to be about the eBay percentage fee higher than my offer.
Silly people.
This current PH flute is the same thing. My offer wasn’t good enough.
But at least my offers have been turning out to be fair ones (and accurate!).
oh well
It’s not as if I actually NEED another Rudall!! I let two go by at a UK auction last week!
David,
I did indeed recently acquire a new HJ for my R&R (#4117). Patrick Olwell made it. I believe I waited almost two years, and it cost $500.00. And, I’m loving it! Can’t bring myself to put the original HJ back on the R&R (by the way, I think I mistakenly referred to my original R&R hj as a patent hj, but I don’t think it is) to do a comparison yet, but I’ll get around to it.
Oh, and I’m just wondering… what’s up with having flutes ass collectibles?
I’m sure mine wouldn’t be considered a collectible as it has cracks, a a carbon fiber band around the top end of the 4th section -but it plays beautifully, and in my estimation, that’s the important part.
Arbo, you didn’t mean flute-ass collectibles, did you?
A collectible is just something that somebody wants to own, aside from the issue of utility. Could be anything from old Barbie Dolls™ to old Rudalls. Condition matters very much. Playability is often less important than appearance.
treeshark, the flute at Tony’s place is a very good Rudall
You’ll pay for the privledge, but it’s a very good flute.
I believe Robert Bigio had a hand on it at one time (to play, that is…I don’t suspect he’s done any repair to it).
3000 GBP is quite a lot, I’ll agree (~ $6000 US)…
but I’m sure it plays to that value.
I suppose it’s what you would call a fair antique retail price, however I think I’m best sticking with current makers though I do have this irrational urge to own a Rudall, since the time I stupidly bought that fake one it feels like unfinished business, what a pity Andrew isn’t on the board to comment.
Rob
