I see that Prince Harry is being sent to Auschwitz- Birkenau by his father.
I suppose he has a better chance of returning than some.
It will do him good I suppose - he is very young ( old enough to know better many will say).
I found that I didn’t feel like that sort of good being done to me when I was in Crakow a while back !
Nice city.
In most US circles such a costume would be met with discomfort if not out-and-out hostility. Then again, in others circles, no one would bat an eye. Not my milieu. I would find it hard to be civil to such types.
I don’t know about British television, but in the US we get programming enough on various channels from time to time to remind us of the Holocaust. I don’t know whether the youth ever watch these programs.
You have got it in one, Nanohedron.
Such things do not feature on chat shows/cookery shows/ house makeovers / or pop music shows and therefore are never seen by “ordinary People”
Bread and circuses indeed!
Soma
Chiff & Fipple. 
cue lead balloon
Music not played on flutes or whistles…
Iraqis Cast Their Votes, Despite Violence
By MARIAM FAM, Associated Press Writer
BAGHDAD, Iraq - Iraqis danced and clapped with joy Sunday as they voted in their country’s first free election in a half-century, defying insurgents who launched eight suicide bombings and mortar strikes at polling stations. The attacks killed at least 36 people.
Polling stations officially closed as of 5 p.m., but the elecion commission said anyone still in line would be allowed to vote. An Iraqi election official said that 72 percent of eligible Iraqi voters had turned out so far nationwide.
The official, Adel al-Lami of the Independent Electoral Commission, offered no overall figures of the actual number of Iraqis who have voted to back up the claim.
After a slow start, men and women in flowing black abayas ? often holding babies ? formed long lines, although there were pockets of Iraq (news - web sites ) where the streets and polling stations were deserted. Iraqis prohibited from using private cars walked streets crowded in a few places nearly shoulder-to-shoulder with voters, hitched rides on military buses and trucks, and some even carried the elderly in their arms.
“This is democracy,” said Karfia Abbasi, holding up a thumb stained with purple ink to prove she had voted.
Officials said turnout appeared higher than expected, although it was too soon to tell for sure. Iraqi officials have predicted that up to 8 million of the 14 million voters ? just over 57 percent ? would participate.
In a potentially troublesome sign, the polls at first were deserted in mostly Sunni cities like Fallujah, Ramadi and Samarra around Baghdad, and in the restive, heavily Sunni northern city of Mosul.
Clashes had erupted between insurgents and Iraqi soldiers in western Mosul. And in Baghdad’s mainly Sunni Arab area of Azamiyah, the neighborhood’s four polling centers did not open, residents said.
A low Sunni turnout could undermine the new government and worsen tensions among the country’s ethnic, religious and cultural groups.
A Web site statement purportedly from Abu Musab al-Zarqawi’s group claimed responsibility for election-day attacks in Iraq, although the claim could not be verified. The Jordanian militant is said to be behind many of the suicide car-bombings, kidnappings and beheadings of foreigners in Iraq, and his group vowed to kill those who ventured out to vote.
Casting his vote, Interim Prime Minister Ayad Allawi called it “the first time the Iraqis will determine their destiny.”
Turnout was brisk in Shiite Muslim and mixed Shiite-Sunni neighborhoods. Even in the small town of Askan in the so-called “triangle of death” south of Baghdad, 20 people waited in line at each of several polling centers. More walked toward the polls.
Rumors of impending violence were rife. When an unexplained boom sounded near one Baghdad voting station, some women put their hands to their mouths and whispered prayers. Others continued walking calmly to the voting stations. Several shouted in unison: “We have no fear.”
“Am I scared? Of course I’m not scared. This is my country,” said 50-year-old Fathiya Mohammed, wearing a head-to-toe abaya.
At one polling place in Baghdad, soldiers and voters joined hands in a dance, and in Baqouba, voters jumped and clapped to celebrate the historic day. At another, an Iraqi policeman in a black ski mask tucked his assault rifle under one arm and took the hand of an elderly blind woman, guiding her to the polls.
In Ramadi, U.S. troops coaxed voters with loudspeakers, preaching the importance of every ballot.
The election is a major test of President Bush (news - web sites )'s goal of promoting democracy in the Middle East. If successful, it also could hasten the day when the United States brings home its 150,000 troops. More than 1,400 members of the U.S. military have died since the beginning of the Iraq war in March 2003, including a U.S. Marine killed in combat Sunday in Iraq’s restive Anbar province. No details were released on the latest death.
Security was tight. About 300,000 Iraqi and American troops were on the streets and on standby to protect voters, who entered polling stations under loops of razor wire and the watchful eye of rooftop sharpshooters.
Private cars were mostly banned from the streets, forcing suicide bombers to strap explosives to their bodies and carry out attacks on foot.
The governor of the mostly Sunni province of Salaheddin, Hamad Hmoud Shagti, went on the radio to lobby for a higher turnout. “This is a chance for you as Iraqis to assure your and your children’s future,” he said.
Shiite Muslims, estimated at 60 percent of Iraq’s 26 million people, were expected to turn out in large numbers, encouraged by clerics who hope their community will gain power after generations of oppression by the Sunni minority.
A ticket endorsed by the country’s leading Shiite cleric, Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani, is expected to fare best among the 111 candidate lists. However, no faction is expected to win an outright majority, meaning possibly weeks of political deal-making before a new prime minister is chosen.
The elections will also give Kurds a chance to gain more influence in Iraq after long years of marginalization under the Baath Party that ruled the country for 34 years.
“This proves that we are now free,” said Akar Azad, 19, who came to the polls with his wife Serwin Suker and sister Bigat.
Iraqis in 14 nations also held the last of three days of overseas balloting on Sunday, with officials in Australia extending polling station hours because of an earlier riot and bomb scare. More than 70 percent of the 281,000 registered overseas voters had cast a ballot, al-Lami of the Independent Electoral Commission said.
Speaking in Nigeria, U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan (news - web sites) called Sunday’s balloting “the first step” toward democracy. “It’s a beginning, not an end,” he said.
Final results of the election will not be known for seven to 10 days, but a preliminary tally could come as early as late Sunday.
One U.S.-funded election observer said early reports pointed to smoother-than-expected voting, despite the violence.
“We’re hearing there has been fairly robust turnout in certain areas,” said Sam Patten, a member of the Baghdad team of the International Republican Institute.
The chief U.N. adviser to Iraq’s election commission, Carlos Valenzuela, also said turnout seemed to be good in most places.
“These attacks have not stopped the operations,” Valenzuela said.
Asked if reports of better-than-expected turnout in areas where Sunni and Shiite Muslims live together indicated that a Sunni cleric boycott effort had failed, one of the main groups pushing the boycott seemed to soften its stance.
“The association’s call for a boycott of the election was not a fatwa (religious edict), but only a statement,” said Association of Muslim Scholars spokesman Omar Ragheb. “It was never a question of something religiously prohibited or permitted.”
In the most deadly attack, a suicide bomber blew himself up at a polling station in western Baghdad, killing himself, three policemen and a civilian, officials said. Witness Faleh Hussein said the bomber approached a line of voters and detonated an explosives belt.
In a second suicide attack at a polling station, a bomber blew up himself, one policeman and two Iraqi soldiers. In a third suicide attack at a school in western Baghdad, three people and the bomber died, police said.
And in a fourth, at another school in eastern Baghdad, a suicide bomber killed himself and at least three others. Another five people died in other suicide attacks.
Also, a suicide bomber blew himself up near the home of Iraq’s justice minister in western Baghdad in an apparent assassination attempt. The minister was not home but the attack killed one person, an Interior Ministry official said.
The rest were killed in shootings and explosions in several communities north of Baghdad.
Overall, eight of the 36 people killed were suicide bombers.
In addition, three people were killed when mortars landed near a polling station in Sadr City, the heart of Baghdad’s Shiite Muslim community. Two others died when a mortar round hit a home in Amel, and a policeman died in a mortar attack on a polling station in Khan al-Mahawil, south of Baghdad.
In Mosul, the province’s deputy escaped an assassination attempt, but his bodyguard was killed.
From Reuters:
Defiant Iraqis Vote in Their Millions Despite Bombs
By Luke Baker
BAGHDAD (Reuters) - Some came on crutches, others walked for miles then struggled to read the ballot, but across most of Iraq (news - web sites) millions turned out to vote Sunday, defying insurgent threats of a bloodbath.
Suicide bombs and mortars killed at least 33 people, but Iraqis still came out in force for the first multi-party poll in 50 years. While in some areas turnout was scant, in most places, including violent Sunni Arab regions, it exceeded expectations.
Many cheered with joy at their first chance to cast a free vote, while others shared chocolates with fellow voters.
Even in Falluja, the Sunni city west of Baghdad that was a militant stronghold until a U.S. assault in November, a steady stream of people turned out, confounding expectations. Lines of veiled women clutching their papers waited in line to vote.
“We want to be like other Iraqis, we don’t want to always be in opposition,” said Ahmed Jassim, smiling after he voted.
In Baquba, a rebellious city northeast of Baghdad, spirited crowds clapped and danced at one voting station. In Mosul, scene of some of the worst insurgent attacks in recent months, U.S. and local officials said turnout was surprisingly high.
That said, there were also areas of the Sunni heartland where turnout was scarce and intimidation appeared to have won.
One of the first to vote was President Ghazi al-Yawar, a Sunni Muslim Arab with a large tribal following, who cast his ballot inside Baghdad’s fortress-like Green Zone.
“Thanks be to God,” he told reporters, emerging from the booth with his right index finger stained with bright blue ink to show he had voted. “I hope everyone will go out and vote.”
In the relatively secure Kurdish north, people flowed steadily to the polls. One illiterate man in Arbil, 76-year-old Said Rasool, came alone and was turned away, unable to read the ballot paper. He said he would return with someone to help.
Even in the so-called “triangle of death,” a hotbed of Sunni insurgency south of Baghdad, turnout was solid, officials said.
FESTIVE VOTING
In mainly Shi’ite Basra, Iraq’s second biggest city, hundreds queued patiently to vote. “I am not afraid,” said Samir Khalil Ibrahim. “This is like a festival for all Iraqis.”
A small group cheered in Baghdad as Sharif Ali bin al-Hussein, a descendant of Iraq’s last king, went to the polls.
Western Baghdad polling stations were busy, with long queues of voters. Most went about the process routinely, filling in their ballots and leaving quickly without much emotion.
Others brought chocolates for those waiting in line, and shared festive juice drinks inside the voting station.
Samir Hassan, 32, who lost his leg in a car bomb blast in October, was determined to vote. “I would have crawled here if I had to. I don’t want terrorists to kill other Iraqis like they tried to kill me. Today I am voting for peace,” he said, leaning on his metal crutches, determination in his reddened eyes.
In Sadr City, a poor Shi’ite neighborhood of northeast Baghdad, thick lines of voters turned out, women in black abaya robes in one line, men in another.
Some of the first to vote countrywide were policemen, out in force to protect polling centers from attack, part of draconian security measures put in place by U.S. and Iraqi officials.
In Samarra, a restive Sunni-Shi’ite city north of Baghdad, only about 100 people voted at one of two polling sites. One woman, covered head-to-toe in black robes, kept her face concealed, but said she had voted with pride.
In nearby Baiji, some people were unable to vote because electoral officials failed to turn up. “We are waiting for the manager with the key,” said an election worker, apologizing.
“VOTE FOR HUMANITY”
In the shrine city of Najaf in the Shi’ite heartland, hundreds of people walked calmly to polling stations. Security around Najaf, attacked before, was some of the tightest.
Shi’ites, who make up 60 percent of Iraq’s people, are expected to win the vote, overturning years of oppression. In Kirkuk, Kurds turned out in force, as expected, but Arabs and Turkmen appeared to boycott, angered by what they saw as voting rules that favor Kurds.
By the end of the day in Baghdad, voters were running to polling stations to get there before polls closed at 5 p.m. (1400 GMT). Some old women were pulled along by young sons. One of the biggest surprises was Mosul, a mixed Sunni Arab and Kurd city in the far north, where U.S. army officers said they were surprised to see long lines at many voting centers.
Baghdad’s mayor was overcome with emotion by the turnout of voters at City Hall, where he said thousands were celebrating.
“I cannot describe what I am seeing. It is incredible. This is a vote for the future, for the children, for the rule of law, for humanity, for love,” Alaa al-Tamimi told Reuters.
Best of luck to them all. Especially the Kurds who can well be looking for a homeland at last. Will the Turks soften their attitude with an application to join the EEC pending ?
We shall have to wait to see if the reports from Baghdad show great numbers of votes and indeed from the four “difficult” central provinces with over half of the population.
I bet the Reuters man didn’t go far from his green compound like most other reporters !
The likeliest outcome has always seemed to me that the Iran sponsored Shia areas in the south will drift into an Islamic federation with Iran.
Many think that Sistani is just biding his time.
It remains to be seen what the outcome will be.
Increasingly the outcome is in the hands of Iraqis,
as it must be. Much remains to be seen, definitely,
and there is real promise now of a democratic
nation of Iraq. If that should come to pass,
millions in Syria, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait,
Lybia will ask, why not here? Especially young
people.
This prospect, which I believe was the underlying
vision that, for the neocons anyhow, helped motivate
the invasion, provides more impetus to the USA to make
sure the Palestinian/ Israeli catastrophe gets
solved. What is happening in Iraq will look ever
so much better in the eyes of Arabs in that case.
Otherwise it looks like another imperialist
scheme; the USA the agent of Israel. And
if there is a state of Palestine,
or the real prospect of one, there will be
two Arab democracies.
I think Bush is now far more politically confident and
able at foreign affairs, especially the middle east
in whcih he has had a crash course (in several
senses) and survived. Texas didn’t have much of a foreign
policy. He can’t be re-elected so he has some
political wiggle room. The second term is when presidents look
to their legacy. And the EU now has the opening
it needs to support Iraq, and all the reason in
the world to do so, and to support with all its force a
resolution to the Palestinian problem.
Events sometimes take on a momentum
of their own.
The stars may be aligning in the right
configuration–or perhaps my heart will again
be broken. As you say, much remains to be seen.
All this mayhem , misery and expense for illegal and unneccessary underhand regime change ! Most of what has happened was widely predicted ( and by LOM ).
Blair came on the telly 2 weeks before the invasion and said that Hussein could stay where he was if he gave up his weapons ! This was just before he lied to parliament to get his vote for war. And BLAIR IS STILL THERE
No. It is about a foothold in the middle east and the securing of supplies !
( componded by the most ridiculous assumptions made on the most unreliable and biased of bought advice on the likely outcome of the invasion / occupation from the people least likely to tell the truth, if there ever is such a thing ).
And what about the despoilation by th US of the site of Babylon ???
What sort of lasting world crime is that ?
You are concerned more about what it’s about and
whether it was right; I’m more concerned about
what will happen. Your concerns are perfectly
legit; so are mine.
I’m not trying to justify
the invasion. Good comes of evil; evil of good.
I’m impressed by how the historical process
eludes moral categories–which hardly
makes them irrelevant. Not a tidy world.
If these people invaded Iraq, significantly
motivated by the desire to democratize the
middle east (as I believe), then they may well have done
something seriously wrong–for changing the
order of things for the good is insufficient to warrant
an aggressive war! Nonetheless, as they did it,
it would be a good thing if the middle
east got democratized. That doesn’t make
the invasion right, but the invasion’s being
wrong doesn’t make the democratization
of the middle east less good.
I could have mentioned how US foreign policy is in the hands of zionists ( the neoconmen ) for zionists.
Or how your gallant leader only seems to know what Miss Rice chooses to tell him ( which seems little ).
This though is not the problem. It isn’t what to do about Iraq ( Nothing , except pay for war damage. And apologise for your sharpshooters using the civilian population for target practice ).
The problem is that they want MORE .
Look at Iran and so on..
And there are plenty who question your ideas of democratization.
Most trouble in the world has come from people wanting change . Their sort of change, and change now.Usually they want the change for themselves, but your lot, Jim pretend that it is for others. Of course it is all part of the Con
We have all looked at Iraqi history and questioned the way it could or should be governed. “Democracy” ( especially US fraud ridden election type of democracy ) hasn’t seemed the obvious answer over the last 3000 years.Neither has it been considered the best or most urgent way of dealing with ( if anybody should deal with ) the tribal societies of the region.
Meddling by American Crusaders is not necessarily the way forward.
It may be that the sensible and decent thing would be simply to go now, if only the people in charge were big enough !
And there are plenty who question your ideas of democratization.
Millions of Iraqis just put their lives on the line for it.
Increasingly their future is in their hands.
We shall see what they make of it.
Andrew, anger about the war aside, the voting is a good thing. It was much worse when the US used to knock down democratic governments and put up dictatorships. At least now they’ve knocked down a dictatorship and put up some kind of representative democracy.
But it’s very interesting to think that there was a national election right before the war too (Sadam won, of course). So here we have an ivasion and “regime change” bracketed by elections.
The US now has a different challenge, and we will see how well they are able to evolve from invader to true “nation-building” colonial power. This election is probably safe – i’ll be very surprised if the American-endorsed government doesn’t win. But the next one will be very interesting. What are they going to do if the Iraqs vote for people the US doesn’t like? How are they going to avoid power going to the majority group, the Shia, who are notoriously unsympathetic to the US?
Interesting times to follow.
g
Your ideas of democratization, Jim, seem to be found in the US, and mine seem to be found in the rest of the world !
Did the Iraqis really vote for democracy ?
The Shias who have just voted did it on the instructions of their leader Ayotolla Sistani. Nobody outside his circle knows what he is up to.
Nobody knows the turnout, the estimates at the moment seeming to simply derive from the ( very suspect ) figures for the numbers who could possibly have voted, given the high number of under 16s ( even after all the cluster bombing ).
I read of the man in the street’s doubts on the validity of the vote as establishing any recognisable form of democracy given the nature of the new blocks in the voted-for parliament which are likely to produce stalemate, the continued US control of the new " Government ", and any slide to Iranian and theocratic control through Sistani’s subtle movements in his undisclosed intentions.
Did the Iraqis really vote for democracy ?
Yes, to answer your question, and many danced for joy
and cried ‘This is democracy!’ as they did.
And all had risked being blown to bits just
to get to the polls. Please count it, Andrew.
Some very nasty people, who threatened
their lives, in fact, will say it isn’t so.
I hope you are right There are a lot of apparantly dispassionate commentators around the world who do not interpret what seems to be happening and what may happen the way you do. Some dancing in the streets reported probably at second hand is to be expected. It will have little bearing on the conflicts to be expected in the new power blocks which will form in the new body which has to produce the constitution.
When that has happened we can begin to guess as to the future.
Till then we can look to all sorts of conflicts and moves to partition and an Islamic State.
I hope it will all be nice and peaceful, like on the other threads !
It was interesting that your GL rushed in 4 hours after the election to say what a success it was, though nobody else had any real idea of what has happened. Who told him to do that ?
So daft he probably did it himself.
