O.T. Special Day

Whistle
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Tomorrow is a day to remember an individual whos hopes and dreams of a better place caused many of us to think and then to act in hopes of bringing those dreams into reality.
It is also a day when thousands of us (Im hoping for millions) will again hit the streets to exercise our rights as citisens of this great, though adolensntly challanged, country and voice our rejection of current forign policy. We will be objecting to war, needless war for a coorperate agenda. We will be voicing our rejection of a policy of exceptable colateral damage.(my vision of colateral damage is far to grafic and real to share on these pages but you may be able to understand the reality of colateral damage by remembering the victoms of 9/11. If the shoe was on the other foot these people would be considered colateral damage). We will be voicing our outrage at the degridation of out Bill of Rights under the guise of affording a way of protecting the free citisens of this land. We will be protesting the veil of secrecy that has robbed us of the ability of self determination. There is othing safe about freedom. It requires great courage and strength from the individuals who hold it in there hearts. I hope that you will take time tomorrow to reflect on where we are at and what, it seems, we, as a nation are about to do. War is not an answer it is a garentee, a garentee of more inocent deaths and a seed for yet more war. I hope I havent offended anyone here with my ranat but this is what I do 24/7. Once bitten twice shy. I know how deadly we are.

Tom

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Good to see that inflammatory political posts are decreasing.

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On 2003-01-17 15:46, Walden wrote:
Good to see that inflammatory political posts are decreasing.

Walden, you are the best… I needed that on a Friday afternoon!

Richard

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Tom, I generally agree with your ideas, but still don’t know what particular day is tomorrow??

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citisens of this great, though adolensntly challanged
forign policy.
coorperate agenda.
exceptable colateral damage.
to grafic
victoms
degridation of out Bill of Rights under the there hearts.
garentee, a garentee of more inocent deaths and a seed for yet more war.

Let’s see…amid the semi-coherent ravings, these should be:
citizens
adolescently challenged
foreign
corporate (And I wasn’t aware the US Government was a corporation)
acceptable, collateral
too graphic
victims
degradation
their
guarantee
innocent

All that aside, I take exception to some of the statements made.

“If the shoe was on the other foot, the victims of 9/11 would be considered collateral damage”. Not so. The victims of 9/11 were INTENDED to be victims. They were not incidental deaths due to a military strike. The 9/11 attacks were intended to do just what they did…outrage a nation and cause as much disruption as possible. There was no warning, no way to leave a war zone, etc.

“We will be protesting the veil of secrecy that has robbed us of the ability of self determination.”

What veil of secrecy? Nobody has taken my ability to self determinate. Self determination is defined as “The ability to: reach goals that I set, take part fully in the world around me, and control my life.” I suppose that there is some nebulous government plot swirling around me, and guiding me in my choices without my knowledge?

“War is not an answer it is a garentee, a garentee of more inocent deaths and a seed for yet more war.”

While war may not be an answer, I hardly think that the rest of your statement logically follows.

“I hope I haven`t offended anyone here with my ranat but this is what I do 24/7. Once bitten twice shy. I know how deadly we are.”

If you truly hoped not to offend anyone, then you would have posted something along the lines of “Hey, tomorrow I am commemorating a great man. If you are so inclined, stop yourself for a moment tomorrow and reflect on his accomplishments, and where we are as a nation. If you want to discuss it further, PM me”. Ranting semi-incoherently, and then saying “Excuse me, I hope nobody was offended” is a subversity in and of itself.

I too respect the man, his ideals and wishes, and know (I have served in the military) what agendas and war do to things around me. I don’t believe that a forum dedicated to the celebration of music is a proper place to be soapbox shouting.

Just my .02 cents…

Aodhan

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And Aodhan, you missed whos - whose

Tyghress
…And I go on, pursuing through the hours,
Another tiger, the one not found in verse.
Jorge Luis Borges

[ This Message was edited by: tyghress on 2003-01-17 16:30 ]

[ This Message was edited by: tyghress on 2003-01-17 16:31 ]

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Sorry Claudine I keep forgetting this is a world wide family. Its Martin Luther King Day. He was a civil rights activist back in the 60s who was murdered. It is a national holiday here.

Tom

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Aodhan, although I agree with what you said I think it’s a bit disrespectful to dis’ on someone’s spelling. I think everyone understood what Blackbeer said. I would hate for people to not post because they feel they might get ripped for not having perfect spelling.

As far as the whole “soapbox” comment, as I said in an earlier post I enjoy the broad groups of folks we have on C&F. I think it’s a great place to discuss Global Issues whatever they may be.

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On 2003-01-17 16:39, CraigMc wrote:
…I think it’s a great place to discuss Global Issues whatever they may be.

Discuss: to investigate by reasoning or argument.

Most of the time what I read here is NOT a discussion.

Aodhan: I thought your post was worth at least $.25.

However, I find the creation of the Department of Motherland err…Homeland Security kind of scarry in a 1950’s McCarthyesque way.

[obligatory smiley] :slight_smile: [/obligatory smiley]

-Brett

“A jug of wine, A leg of lamb,
And thou! Beside me,
Whistling in the darkness.”

[ This Message was edited by: Bretton on 2003-01-17 17:33 ]

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On 2003-01-17 16:39, CraigMc wrote:
Aodhan, although I agree with what you said I think it’s a bit disrespectful to dis’ on someone’s spelling. I think everyone understood what Blackbeer said. I would hate for people to not post because they feel they might get ripped for not having perfect spelling.

True in some respects, and this may be one of my pet peeves, in that very little emphasis is placed anymore on basic skills (Seen how many cashiers anymore can count change correctly?).

However, there are words that can be misconstrued as far as meaning. Exceptable (While not being an actual word) contains as a root word, “Except”. This gives the word (in situ) an entirely different meaning than the intended word, “Acceptable”.

If you are going to use language to convey a meaning, especially a message such as his, then it would be to your advantage to ensure correct usage, if for no other reason than to not detract from your actual message.

Aodhan

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We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

Note the part about common defence. Sometimes defence is necessary when your enemy wants to kill your citizens.

Note the part about the people the document applies to. Does it apply to people of any other nationality?

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There used to be a discussion board at my company and it was pretty much systematically destroyed by someone who would constantly belittle other poster’s poor spelling and ended up squashing any reasonable debate because rather than point/counterpoint he would disregard any post that wasn’t grammatically perfect, contending that someone that couldn’t spell couldn’t reason or think etc…

I find it more valuable to sacrifice remarks about writing ability and preserve the free flow of ideas than to make comments and create an atmosphere where people are reluctant to post because of the time it takes to ensure each post is 100% error free.




[ This Message was edited by: CraigMc on 2003-01-17 17:46 ]

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would constantly belittle other poster’s poor spelling and ended up squashing any reasonable debate because rather than point/counterpoint he would disregard any

Constantly? Hardly. In fact, rarely. However, I do believe that if one is going to engage in a polemic posting, one should try to express oneself as clear as may be possible.

And, I don’t believe that I am quashing any debate. Rather, I gave (at least in my eyes) cogent responses to specific issues I had with his post. If he would like to come back with a refutation, I am more than willing to have my viewpoint changed or modified as may be warranted.

His point, my counterpoints, the volley is in his court now. :smiley:

Aodhan

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Tomorrow we will truly be honoring a man of principle and dignity. A man of vision, a leader who is admired and revered.

That said and since I have a spell checker my lack of talent in that area does not show. I however believe that people who criticize others for their lack of talent in this area are somewhat anal retentive to begin with. It has been my experience on these board that most posters are responsible mature individuals and that this snide attack on another poster talents or lack of it is a reflection on that individual. Dr King would not approve of my statement or his.

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On 2003-01-17 18:07, Wizzer wrote:
Tomorrow we will truly be honoring a man of principle and dignity. A man of vision, a leader who is admired and revered.

That said and since I have a spell checker my lack of talent in that area does not show. I however believe that people who criticize others for their lack of talent in this area are somewhat anal retentive to begin with. It has been my experience on these board that most posters are responsible mature individuals and that this snide attack on another poster talents or lack of it is a reflection on that individual. Dr King would not approve of my statement or his.

Ah, but you care enough about your messages to run them through a spell checker to make sure they are clear.

And as far as being anal, I plead guilty. There are aspects of my life where I am VERY anal. Clear expression falls under that category. Deal.

Aodhan

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On 2003-01-17 17:57, Aodhan wrote:
Constantly? Hardly. In fact, rarely. However, I do believe that if one is going to engage in a polemic posting, one should try to express oneself as clear as may be possible.

And, I don’t believe that I am quashing any debate. Rather, I gave (at least in my eyes) cogent responses to specific issues I had with his post. If he would like to come back with a refutation, I am more than willing to have my viewpoint changed or modified as may be warranted.

Aodhan, I think you should lay off the Thesaurus. It detracts from your message. Or was your message that you know words like “cogent”?

That is not to say that I don’t agree that one should express oneself clearly. But one should resist the cheap shot, also. Now, just to show you that I am not holier-than-thou, let me mention that you should have written: “…one should try to express oneself as clearLY as may be possible.”

\

/bloomfield


[ This Message was edited by: bloomfield on 2003-01-17 18:28 ]

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Constantly? Hardly. In fact, rarely. However, I do believe that if one is going to engage in a polemic posting, one should try to express oneself as clear as may be possible.

And, I don’t believe that I am quashing any debate. Rather, I gave (at least in my eyes) cogent responses to specific issues I had with his post. If he would like to come back with a refutation, I am more than willing to have my viewpoint changed or modified as may be warranted.

His point, my counterpoints, the volley is in his court now.

Aodhan

I’m not saying you (Aodahn) constantly do this. I’m just explaning why It frustrates me.

It’s ad hominem and completely un-neccesary. There are allot of folks on this board that may speak english as a second language and because of peoples sensitivities I suggest most errors be ignored unless you need to clarify a certain point.

I’m planning on attending a pro-troop rally at the Air Base in Tacoma this week-end. Although I disagree with Blackbeer I understood what he said and respect him for being a Veteran and putting his life on the line for a cause he may not have fully agreed with.

[ This Message was edited by: CraigMc on 2003-01-17 18:30 ]

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CraigMc
"I’m planning on attending a pro-troop rally at the Air Base in Tacoma this week-end. Although I disagree with Blackbeer I understood what he said and respect him for being a Veteran and putting his life on the line for a cause he may not have fully agreed with. "
As a Vietnam vet I hope we would be all pro-troop no matter what the merits of our present situation. They are the young men and women who put themselves in harms way so we can sit here and debate its pro and cons.

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When you start a political thread as Blackbeer did you open yourself to criticism. It happens. People who claim to know what’s best for the rest of us should be able to at least master the language. And it extends to the use of English too.

Some people on this site use English as a second language and we expect them to come up with an occasional strangeism.

In any case, this is not the place or time for taking shots at “the system”.

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As a Vietnam vet I hope we would be all pro-troop no matter what the merits of our present situation. They are the young men and women who put themselves in harms way so we can sit here and debate its pro and cons.

I would hope so as well but the last few days so-called “peace” demonstrators have stood outside of the bases here in Washington to let our troops know how little support there is for them. I suppose I should have said counter-demonstrate because we are really going there to show our troops that many of us support them simply for the tuff job they do for all of us, regardless of what the politician are ordering them to do. If they are ordered to go to war they better know their countrymen are behind them.