I stumbled across this while doing my usual trawling for flutes
http://cgi.ebay.ie/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=190187689707 she looks mint i know that their are a lot of 8 key concert d fans on the site!
I’m a whistler in the market for my first flute. I wanted one with keys, but I’ve been told that keys make it complicated. How is this so? Im playing a silver flute right now and the one thing I like about it is the fact that I can play in several Keys, not just D and G.
Nice looking flute but it won’t be terribly loud. The foot might be missing a ring. Also, one of the bugbears (for me anyways) about this type of flute is RH pinky placement.
irish69,
keys are not necessarily complicated. They basically are just expensive. 
There’s nothing wrong with playing irish music on a silver flute, there are many flutists who do it. You’ll also find some nice videos on YouTube featuringirish music played on the silver flute, and even on the WFO records some tracks are played on silver (or at least boehm-system) flutes; Joanie Madden’s track comes to my mind for example.
But of course, the wooden flute still sounds different due to its shape. The flute above is a typical german flute. Some are great, others are crap. That one has been restored and should be one of the better ones, but without a maker’s mark (and even sometimes with one!), they’re still a bit of a gamble.
If you are in the marked for a reasonable keyed flute, you could go for an M&E. They only put keys on their Delrin flutes, though. Those are 850€ for six keys. I doubt that you can get cheaper keys and guaranteed quality elsewhere.
Best,
Gabriel
If you’re used to a keyed flute, it won’t be so complicated.
The flute that’s on Ebay is a very good flute. The person selling it is a very good player and he’s right that it’s a solid flute aside from the hole that runs down the length of it. It is missing the bottom ring but that’s not such a big deal. I’ve played the flute and I like it very much. When he played it the flute had good volume and sounded in good tune. It’s way past your average German 19th C. flute. The wood in particular is very pretty.
I shouldn’t say this since I’ll be bidding on it. So maybe you should pass it by and buy the Delrin with keys. Yes, that’s a better bet. I agree with himself here.
in the interests of accuracy, i’d better mention that it also features an embouchure hole and 14 others besides.
otherwise, it’s pretty solid.
Keys do not make anything complicated, at least so far as 8-key flutes and ITM are concerned. For starters, they can pretty much be ignored in the early phases of learning. (Though N.B. on many older flutes you do need to vent certain keys to get certain notes optimally in tune.) Then, you’ve already got them there and are used to the feel of them when you reach tunes that specifically require them. That said, when I teach people from scratch on 8-key I get them using the keys from the very beginning. Doesn’t seem to cause any extra difficulty. What is far worse is to develop to a reasonable standard on keyless and then have to shift over. You sound like a prime candidate for a fully keyed flute.
Gabriel’s comment about keys being expensive only applies to modern-made flutes. As I keep saying in various threads/contexts, you can buy perfectly usable (at least up to good intermediate level) antique flutes with the full kit for a quarter of the price of the least expensive 8-keyers from modern makers and for similar prices to some of the better key_less_ ones. You can get a good, restored and ready to play German or French flute for <£350 and even half-decent, non-top name English ones for <£800, sometimes much less if you are lucky, and less again if you are prepared to do overhaul work yourself. (For reference, the cheapest new-made 8-keyers seem to be about £1200+.)
Why bother with a keyless? The German and French flutes may not “honk” like some of the modern keyless, but they will be quite loud enough and you will become a much more developed and versatile player on one of them than on a keyless, and you can put in your order now (and start saving!) with a maker for a fully keyed flute that honks, which you will be much better equipped to use to its full capacity when it is ready 5-10 years later!
Hi Jem im just curious to a part of your post where you say people would pay up to 800 pounds for and English 8 key flute. The thread entitled Franken flute with the composite flute the same seller Magginisupplies sold a rudall carte 8 key ebonite flute for 250 pounds buy it now. This flute was probably e flat in pitch.
What kind of 8 key English flute would fetch this money if a 8 key Rudall only sold for 250 which i would say was about right. Would the flute need to be in d (concert) and made of wood or would it just take a desperate person getting into a bidding war to pay this money?
I have just bought one at a price im happy with and have no intention to sell for gain but just curious to see what kind of person would spend 800 quid on a 8 key flute and what kind of flute it would be ie cocus and in key of d.
Im just wondering Imo Rudall are the top maker and if they only fetch 250 what would get 800?
David
A simple-system (“8 key”) flute is only as complicated as you want it to be. if you ignore the keys, it’s exactly the same as any other simple system flute, only heavier and more likely to leak.
and less likely to roll 
What I know about whistles ain’t much, but, seeing as you refer to a silver flute, by which I assume you mean a Boehm flute, and seeing as you are looking at keyed wood flutes, let me offer my two cents worth.
Much, but not all, of ITM can be played on a keyless, six-holed flute, and at relatively low cost, although there are some notable exceptions as to what can be played on such an instrument. Moreover, assuming that you have possession of that silver flute, let me suggest that you start with a keyless flute, while keeping the sliver flute for those occasional tunes which need the extra keys.
As one who once played a silver boehm flute (but not much at all) I can tell you that the wooden flute is much different. For one thing, most of the notes you play don’t have a key at all. Your finger against the hole is what closes the note. This feels completely different from the silver flute keys. To me the keys are slow and noisy and in the way. So with a keyed wooden flute you’d have the best of all worlds. The fast and tactile nature of the wooden flute with the chromatic capability of keys.
I don’t miss keys too much, but I miss them in this order: G#, F natural, Eb and Bb.
Hi Jem im just curious to a part of your post where you say people would pay up to 800 pounds for and English 8 key flute. The thread entitled Franken flute with the composite flute the same seller Magginisupplies sold a rudall carte 8 key ebonite flute for 250 pounds buy it now. This flute was probably e flat in pitch.
What kind of 8 key English flute would fetch this money if a 8 key Rudall only sold for 250 which i would say was about right. Would the flute need to be in d (concert) and made of wood or would it just take a desperate person getting into a bidding war to pay this money?
I have just bought one at a price im happy with and have no intention to sell for gain but just curious to see what kind of person would spend 800 quid on a 8 key flute and what kind of flute it would be ie cocus and in key of d.
Im just wondering Imo Rudall are the top maker and if they only fetch 250 what would get 800?
David
hi david,
as far as i know, in general the top 19’th century english 8-keys, esp. wooden, (mostly) block-mounted, concert d’s from the good makers, in good condition & playing order, generally go for a similar price as- often higher than - similar keyed flutes from today’s good and great makers.
the rudall you mentioned went for much less, i reckon, because:
-it’s not in “D”
-it’s not made of wood (makes it a bit less sought after, nowadays anyway)
-it would nearly definitely need some degree of work - hard to tell how much without seeing it
i don’t know if it was a regular simple system 8-key or not - the one he has there now is not - if not, it would also limit the flute’s general appeal.
also, i don’t know whether it’s one of their best ones, some are better than others.
many of the better makers have fairly long waiting lists, so there’s a constant demand for good d flutes. also, many of the good old ones have been snapped up, and a lot of the owners wouldn’t part with them - well, dearly.
you are fortunate to play the non-“D” flutes - less overall demand, better deal for the buyer.
hope you enjoy the flute anyway!
cheers,
dave
Hi Dave
The Rudall was the standard run of the mill e flat 6 open holes and 6 keyed holes and the standard Boehm flute foot joint in ebonite. Ill post a picture once the buyer leaves feedback.
I take it someone looking for a Irish type 8 eyed flute would want it to be in wood, in the key of d, have block mounts as oposed to pillars and have the c footjoint to have the c and c# sharp keys running parrallel to each other down the flute as oposed to the boehm c foot joint.
like this flute http://www.oldmusicalinstruments.co.uk/instruments/instrument_detail.php?id=235&cat=TF
I cant imagine this flute being any better a player than most flutes by Hawkes or Rudall or Potter and cant really justify its price tag. As you say Dave people might be paying these inflated prices as opposed to waiting for a new one to be made, as well as some of the older ones being better than a new and costing less.
To try very briefly (I haven’t time or inclination just now to respond fully) to answer some of David Quinn’s queries/points
Firstly, the “Frankenflute” from Maggini Supplies is 1) a hybrid, 2) cylindrical body + Boehm head (not cylinder head + conoid body), 3) High Pitch D (NOT Eb though it might - or might not - play OK in Eb), 4) is over-priced given those facts and that it is not restored to ready to play condition.
Secondly, and I do not intend to sound condescending here or to imply any criticism (learning/discovering this stuff takes time!), it is apparent from your comments and queries that you do not yet, David Q, know very much either about the type of flute that is our main concern here - the mid C19th 8-key cylinder head + conoid body “simple system” as commonly used now for ITM, nor about its history and makers, nor about the current market in such instruments. If you browse around among C&F sale posts - see historic instruments sold by Cocusflute, for example - you will learn more. I do not claim to be a proper expert/specialist/dealer like some members here, e.g. Cocusflute, Terry McGee, Jon Cochrane et al, but I know enough to be confident of and to stand by my previous comments in this thread. (Anyone care to comment?)
Suffice it to say that good condition historic flutes by the top names go at similar or higher prices to new-made equivalents, in the £1200+ range up to about £3000 depending on what they are. Decent English conical bore 8-keyers by lesser names that play well in D at A=440 command higher prices than most German or French 5-to-8-keyed flutes, nearly all in the sub-£1000 range. Later C19th English flutes with hybrid key systems on Boehm tubes tend to be worth much less regardless of marque, not least because the majority are at High Pitch of anything up to A=455. You can find out a lot about such matters from Terry McGee’s and Rick Wilson’s websites.
dave,
some of the pillar-mounted ones do play great, though most of the good ones i’ve seen from the “golden age” of english concert flutes have been block-mounted. i think block mounts are more an indicator than a prerequisite for a good flute.
i know some great musicians who were weaned on rudalls, et.c., and that’s what they stick to. however, some of the better makers have redesigned aspects of the flute for trad players, optimising the first 2 octaves, intonation optimised for A-440, “straight” fingering as opposed to venting certain notes, et.c. - so in several ways are continuing the development of the flute, though with trad, not classical players in mind.
that flute in the link looks like a decent smallish-holed one. i’ve never played one of those, so i don’t know really.
Further to my last post (what happened to David Q’s reply???), the following interesting link has just been given by Othannen in his thread about buying a flute - and as it shows a variety of flutes at reasonable current market prices much as I suggested above, I thought it might be helpful to put it here too…
Can anybody verify the integrity of this store? I’m looking for an 8 keyed flute and they seem to have some nice ones here. Does anyone have a recommendation for a flute they have that would be nice for a beginner? Thanks.