Irish Style Wood Headjoints for Boehm Flute

Irish Flute
1

There are several makers of wooden headjoints for silver Boehm flutes. Some, e.g., Full Circle, offer multiple models with different characteristics.

http://www.headjoints.com/

I’d like to get an Irish style headjoint, i.e., optimized to produce and “Irish” timbre, for a Boehm flute. Mark Hoza sells them.

http://www.woodenflutemaker.com/HeadJoints.html

Terry McGee might, although I don’t see them on his web page.

Any other makers of Irish style headjoints for Boehm flutes?

Bill


[ This Message was edited by: SuiZen on 2003-01-12 06:54 ]

2

Check with the woodenflute list, last year someone there compiled an exhaustive list of wooden headjoint makers.

Loren

3

Check out this exhaustive list of wooden headjoint makers.

http://users.uniserve.com/~lwk/woodmake.htm

best,
Micah

4

David Wimberly makes metal headjoints cut to sound like wood that are very good, and he used to make very nice wooden headjoints. I have one that I got second-hand that’s nice, but I prefer my Powell wood head. Also, Chris Abell makes nice wood heads. Avoid Juan Novo (corban36 on eBay), because his heads are very thin in sound, not up to the Irish sound. Peter Noy makes wood heads that I think are excellent. If I didn’t have the Powell head, I would order one from him.

~J

5

Jessie,

I guess the Powell HJ is around $1,100, which the price of the Abel. My experience with Powell silver HJs is that they have them available for immediate sale, and send them on approval. It would be great if this applied to the wooden HJ. I’ll call them tomorrow, and hope they don’t remember me. I got a lot of their silver flutes and HJs for trial and never bought one.

Do you know how much Peter Noy sells the Boehm headjoint for? His price for the non-Boehm is listed as $300.

6

Suizen, his price for UPGRADING to a raised embouchure plate is $300…not for the whole headjoint. I think the Boehm headjoint is around $1100.

I would sell my blackwood Wimberly head for $750, if you are interested.

~J

7

Jessie,

I’ll get back to you on the Wimberly, after I talk to Powell. I may want to go with a complete wood Powell, if they can deliver in under a year. First, I’d get one of their wood HJs for trial though.

What is the diameter of the tenon on your Wimberly? My HJ tenon is 19.70 mm. I can easily make one larger, but I don’t like to make the diameter smaller.

Bill

8

I don’t know the diameter and I am far away from the headjoint at the moment.

I think Powell can deliver a wood flute in about 5 months.

~j

9

Just my 2 cents…
Wooden heads can sound great, and many players recommend them for the tonal change it brings to their Boehm flutes and playing in general.
That said, they do not make your Boehm sound like wooden conical flutes (the key characteristic thing being the conical v. cylindrical part), so unless you are a strict Boehm player looking for a slightly warmer sound, the heads will not make your flute or playing sound any more “Irish” than a Boehm can/will. Since the price range for a good wooden head is a grand or more, it might simply be a better idea to invest in a great keyless wooden flute for around the same or less money, and this way you’ll have a good Irish flute and a Boehm in your playing arsenal.

10

Gordon,

I started the post stating that, “I’d like to get an Irish style headjoint, i.e., optimized to produce and “Irish” timbre, for a Boehm flute.”

My thinking was to go with an Irish flute maker, to get as close, in timbre, as possible. Then, I got off on a tangent.

I’ve been on Olwell’s waiting list, for a keyed flute, for about five years. So, it’s time to find out how many more years I need to wait. It was five years when I got on the list, and heard it’s longer now.

Anyway, thanks for getting me back on track.

I still plan to get some wooden heads for trial. I need to satisfy my curiosity.

Bill_D

[ This Message was edited by: SuiZen on 2003-01-12 16:09 ]

11

SuiZen, if you’ve been waiting five years you should be good to go pretty soon! I’m green with envy. I ordered my keyed Olwell Xmas of '01, and the waiting list at that time was 6 years. As I whined at Patrick: “Six years? I’ll either be dead or worthy by then!” :slight_smile:

–N, hoping for preferential treatment

12

JessieK’s comment on Novo heads reminds me…
One thing to watch out for when looking for a wooden head for a silver flute is that many heads sound very much like a modern silver head, just made out of wood. The embouchure cut has a radical effect on sound and playing characteristics, so a wood head and a silver head cut very much the same will sound quite similar. Full Circle makes headjoints modeled on heads from the 19th century, and I imagine they lend a very different tonal aesthetic.
Something also worth noting is that simple system headjoints and Boehm headjoints are not interchangeable…Boehm heads have a taper in them, whereas simple system heads are cylindrical (the taper occurs in the body of the flute).

[ This Message was edited by: Micah on 2003-01-12 18:30 ]

13

Honestly Gordon, sometimes I wonder about you…

I’ve heard silver boehm flutes with wooden headjoints played in sessions that, in skilled hands, you’d be hard pressed to tell blindfolded (in the session setting) from the Conical bore flutes on either side. Hell, some woman from Texas (I think)showed up at a session I was at over a year ago and her boehm + wooden headjoint sounded more “Irish” than the Grinter that was the only other flute in the session.

Someone (I’m Guessing it was Chris Abell) showed up at the session tonight with a full wooden Abell Boehm, and sounded as Irish as the other two flute players at the session who were playing cone bore flutes.

Which reminds me: One guy had a blackwood flute with brass rings, headjoint lining and tuning slide. The barrel joint was turned so that it had a bit of a flare, but not like a Murray, more of a rounded hump…anyone know what it might be? I had to leave before I could ask the guy.

Loren

14

On 2003-01-12 20:03, Loren wrote:
Honestly Gordon, sometimes I wonder about you…

I’ve heard silver boehm flutes with wooden headjoints played in sessions that, in skilled hands, you’d be hard pressed to tell blindfolded (in the session setting) from the Conical bore flutes on either side. Hell, some woman from Texas (I think)showed up at a session I was at over a year ago and her boehm + wooden headjoint sounded more “Irish” than the Grinter that was the only other flute in the session.

Someone (I’m Guessing it was Chris Abell) showed up at the session tonight with a full wooden Abell Boehm, and sounded as Irish as the other two flute players at the session who were playing cone bore flutes.

Loren

No need to worry 'bout me, Loren. I’m quite mad, you know! :stuck_out_tongue:

Seriously, in the hands of the right player, you wouldn’t know a Boehm at all, wooden head or not. What I was saying is that a Boehm with a wooden head sounds - tonally - like a Boehm with a wooden head. It’s still a cylindrical flute. I’ve heard some that sound great, BTW, but great is not the same as sounding like a conical. There are a few with a non-Boehm embouchure cut, and this will help, but my 2 bits’ worth was just what I’ve said: there are some really superb wooden heads made for Boehm flutes out there, but they don’t make the Boehm into a conical flute, and so the sound change, Irish embouchure cut not withstanding, is minimal, it won’t make it sound conical, just different than the silver, gold or platinum head it had originally. If the flute is worth the investment of the new head, it can be a wonderful change.

What I said at the top is true; Irish playing can be accomplished, for better or worse, on any kind of flute, Boehm included (IMHO), and some players can play in a way that defies the rest of us, on a Boehm or on a soda bottle. But the request was for a wooden head on a Boehm to make it sound more like an Irish flute (ie, a conical), and I thought I’d mention that they are as or more pricey than a great keyless wooden flute (not even just a good one, but a great one). Since Bill is getting an Olwell soon enough, my feeling is for him to save his money, unless he has it to burn, have a Boehm and an Olwell.

Lastly, you really can tell a Boehm from a conical, if you listen very closely (not counting the type-writer clacking, which is a dead giveaway). I don’t have a problem with the tonal differences myself, and have no stake in wooden conicals over Boehms argument in any case. I do know, though, that most Boehm players who are relative beginners on Irish music, will be gravely disappointed if they expect a wooden head on their Boehm to be a major improvement in Irish tone. They may, on the other hand, be very happy with it’s new tone, for tone sake alone.
No argument, really, Loren, when all’s said.
All the best,
Gordon

15

Loren, that’s very cool that you went to a session where Chris Abell probably was.

The flute you mentioned…perhaps an Ormiston?

16

That’s the way my Ormiston looks, though, I don’t know that he makes brass rings - seems to me he uses silver (but I’m not 100%).

Erik

17

My understanding, through experience and reading, is that the headjoint is responsible for most of a flutes timbre, and the conical bore corrects for some of the upper octave tuning problems associated with a cylindrical bore. The Boehm design makes it more chromatic than the simple system flute, and its venting corrects for some of the tuning problems associated with cylindrical bores.

Slightly of the topic, and FWIW, I have found noticable tone and response differences in the same make/model professional (e.g., Brannen, Powell, Haynes, & Landell) Boehm silver flute maker headjoints. Even the ones made by the same skilled headjoint craftsperson are different. I’m not implying that some are bad, only that there are differences. This is why they allow them to be exchanged. I went through many, before I got the current one’s that I am very pleased with. On the other hand, I was immediately satisfied with the headjoints that came with my Patrick Olwell Pratten style blackwood, Hammy Hamilton, and Terry McGee flutes. My fist simple flute from Lark in the Morning was totally unplayable. My early M&E polymer was decent, but a little weak. You would think that it would be easier to duplicate the embouchure of a handmade Boehm silver headjoint, than a wooden Irish style headjoint.

Also, a player hears a timbre different from what the audience hears. I have evaluated same make/model heads, noticing differences in timbre while playing. Then, I record my playing, on a good quality recorder, and the headjoints are more alike in timbre. However, headjoints made by different makers or different model sound somewhat different when played back from a recording.

Anyway, you have given me lots more to think about.

A thread about Boehm flutes was just started on the wooden flute list. An amateur simple system wooden flute player asked about doubling on a Boehm flute to accompany his wife’s singing in different keys.

Bill_D


[ This Message was edited by: SuiZen on 2003-01-13 07:53 ]

18

Yes Gordon, I agree that Boehm flutes sound different from Conical bore flutes, but my point was that you won’t be able to tell them apart blindfolded in a session, if the player is good and using an apropriate wooden headjoint. Sure, alone in a room these flutes - no problem telling them apart, but not at a session. Hell, you can hardly even hear the flutes at the sessions I’ve been to, but then they’ve always been far outnumbered where I’ve been. Case in point, last night’s session had: 1 UP/Fiddle player, 1 (very good and not too loud) Bodhran player, 2 flute players, 1 guy swapping between the (Orimiston?) flute, guitar, and Banjo, 1 concertina player (cool!), 1 whistle/fiddle player from Ireland who had the good sense to only play whistle because…there were already 5-6 other people playing fiddle on virtually every tune!

Yeah, it’s much better to have too many fiddle players than say pipers, drummers, whistlers, guitar or banjo players, but sheesh, from 6 feet away I could only hear the whistle player’s nickel Copeland when he was in the second octave, and one of the flute players, a woman who appeared to be playing a fruitwood Ralph Sweet flute, couldn’t be heard at all.

On 2003-01-12 21:49, JessieK wrote:
Loren, that’s very cool that you went to a session where Chris Abell probably was.

The flute you mentioned…perhaps an Ormiston?

Yeah, I figured “Okay, a guy with an Abell flute wanders into the weekly session in Asheville, what are the chances it’s NOT Chris Abell?” Unfortunately I had to leave before the session was over, and there wasn’t a break where I could get through the crowded pub and across jammed session seating arrangement to talk to him. I’ll be back next week though. Is Chris about my height, similar build, maybe late 30’s to mid 40’s with a moustache and beard…going a bit grey? This fellow seemed to have some kids with him too, rambunctious and cute, under 10 I’d guess.

Loren

19

Loren,

There’s a photo of Chris on the following web page.

http://www.chiffandfipple.com/chrisabell.html

20

Thanks Bill, I’d forgotten about that!

Yup, it was Chris alright, and the cute boy running around with the long tail (hair) and flashing lights on his hiking boots must have been his son Galen :slight_smile: Very cool, I’ll look forward to meeting Chris at one of the future sessions!

Loren