Internet angels

Whistle
1

Hi C&Fers!

I just got inspired to say a few words on behalf of the internet angels amongst us.

SO I’ll start this thread with our own Dale Wisely, Eskin and Wynder.

You are already here on C&F, but Who has visited http://www.tradlessons.com/?cat=4
or
http://whistlethis.com/
lately?

If you were there (or here), did you get any value from it?

It has occured to me that these 3 are expending their best value for free for any whistler with a computer and access to the internet. The advantage they have gifted me is beyond anything I can calculate. As a 50 year old ex musician, I can confidently say I am playing whistle years beyond the time it took me to master guitar whn I was younger- even though I am well beyond the quickness of youth. For an older person, that’s like re-birth! I can only guess what time is being saved for young people! The future looks good.

This, to me, is the heart and soul of “Social Capital” - the underlying value of humanity, made up of the giving hearts of individuals. Without this nothing can continue outside the raw jungle.

Unlike monetary value, social value is not subject to distortion, cannot be hoarded and is unfettered by political and commercial agendas - because it is the honest, pure out-pouring of single human hearts.

Unfortunately, our world has become addicted to the next best thing - cash.

I have seen in my life how social capital has been converted into cash for the benefit of few at the expense of whole societies. This troubles me somewhat and I have been looking for how this can be undone - social value restored for cash.

The truth seems that social value is converted to cash at a net loss, however, cash can be converted to social value at a net gain beyond a stockbrokers wildest dreams! Just think of the music lessons you don’t have to pay for, the travel expense, the sheer amount of time finding resources if these guys were not laying it out for all to see? The way things are, this all comes out of the hearts of exceptional people who chose to gift it rather than pay cash for middle-men and professional destroyers of value for a pittance at the end.

We can help.

For example, if you hit the donate button at C&F, whistlethis or tradlessons, you will allow our internet angels to pay their internet webpage hosting fees, acknowledge their contribution and allow them to continue the gift of their hearts. If enough beneficiaries pledge even just a dollar, then those angels might even be able to find more time to give more. You can’t get value like that from the stockmarket! What is the value of your time? How much are you paid per hour? How much time do you spend deleting value-less scam emails for viagra and bogus stock-tips? Have you already expended hundreds of dollars/hours doing that for the benifit of destroyers? And how many dollars/hours have you expended for the best value around? Like it or not, social value is up to you.

It’s the principal of the whistle = infinite music for less than the cost of a burger.

OK, I have named 3 angels.

Who has encountered another internet whistle angel? Please let us know!

I’m not rich, but I have a paypal account and I can invest another dollar to help our angels.

PS sorry about the diatribe/hard-sell - but it seems important to say right now.

2

here here. I agree completely!

3

Right on!

4

While appreciating both Dale and Wynder for providing the venue, it is just that what they are doing. It’s arguably the ones taking the stage, all of them: the good the bad and the ugly alike, that make the performance and in that sense what you’re suggesting is like giving all proceeds of a successful concert to the venue.

I also think things shouldn’t be other than the way they are, without money changing hands or paypal buttons, things should be received in the spirit they are offered, without obligation, demands or price-tag.



5

Peter you are so right. I wouldn’t for a moment suggest anyone should confine their heartfelt appreciation to mere cash. That they become better players is great value already.

But that is not the main reason for my post - I was hoping that we could identify other angels and help get them recognition as well. Dale, Wynder and Eskin are just the most prominent in my mind - who else is there?

6

Mitch, I would have to add Bro. Steve’s Tin Whistle Pages for the philosophical uplift, even though they are rarely updated.

7

Mr. Michael Clarkson has been a rather busy bee over the last months.

He has already put down a tremendous amount of tunes on flute as well as a little background on the tune if he knows.

He has an interesting huffy puffy style of playing.

I quite enjoy it.

A valuable resource.

The site seems down at the moment but here is the link. I’m sure it will be back up soon.

Do check it out.

http://irishflute.podbean.com/

8

Agreed. As someone who is learning the flute, this site has been incredibly valuable to me.

9

I fully agree with a heartfelt “Thanks” and a contribution when possible to those sites that benefit us the most. The time and money invested by the owners/hosts and moderators is a gift that is priceless! Maintaining a resource website isn’t free, and especially when there is no product for sale, those contributions come in mightily handy.

Don’t forget - C&F does have CafePress items for you to purchase to let others see just how much you love the place. :slight_smile:

I also strongly encourage aspiring folk to actually purchase the CDs of the incredible talents that share here. We have a host of generous folk who are long steeped in the ITM traditon, and who share pointers, information, clips and other help with folks who want a lift. Not to mention the host of makers who are incredibly open to helping folks build their own whistles.

Generosity is alive and well in the hearts of Chiffers.

Be sure to check out the WWW links of our members. You will be surprised what incredible talent you spend your days with here.

10

Parts of the Internet are living the Star Trek dream.

11

Hi there,

Peter wrote: While appreciating both Dale and Wynder for providing the venue, it is just that what they are doing. It’s arguably the ones taking the stage, all of them: the good the bad and the ugly alike, that make the performance and in that sense what you’re suggesting is like giving all proceeds of a successful concert to the venue.

I also think things shouldn’t be other than the way they are, without money changing hands or paypal buttons, things should be received in the spirit they are offered, without obligation, demands or price-tag.

I agree with this, all those who have participated in posting tunes on these sites should be appreciated for their efforts. The clips and snips section here at C&F I think, is a valuable resource for musicians.

To each their own I suppose but in looking at Eskins web site, I noted that he is also selling DVD’s and is advertising for resellers.
This in itself is fine but make no mistake, the motivation here is to make money. With the number of beginners here at C&F and whistle this, he’s got a ready made market to sell his DVD’s.

I suppose it’s like any other artist / band selling a CD or whatever, so there’s nothing wrong with that, you can argue possibly, whether you get what you pay for, in terms of value.
Anyway, assuming these artists are legit in terms of business and income tax etc, then good luck to them.

Grey Larsen is another one who has read the book on how to sell yourself and make as much money as possible.

Anyway to finish by saying that I really appreciate the efforts of all those who have participated in Whistle this and Clips and Snips, especially the beginners. I have listened to loads of these guys getting better and better and gaining confidence. I sometimes think they don’t give themselves enough credit for what they are acheiving so my thanks to them in particular.

Cheers
pkev

12

Not necessarily so.. as regards Michael Eskin’s site for instance, he offers the lessons online for FREE, and offers a DVD of the lessons for a reasonable fee. That’s not money grubbing, that’s paying the bills. He doesn’t owe us any of this, and if he were just out for the funds, he wouldn’t offer the videos on his site. Frankly, if I had the spare funds, I’d buy the DVD even though I can access them online. It would help support the work he’s put into it, and it would allow me more freedom in stopping, starting, repeating sections of the tunes.

Sure, those of us who make items that benefit whistlers benefit from this site, no question, though some of us have been contributing members here longer than we’ve been in the related business. Don’t be too quick to assess the motives.

Also, most of the makers here I’ve had the pleasure of doing business with have surprised me with how thoughtful, cooperative, open to questions and requests, and the like… unlike many businesses. I am glad to have the opportunity to do business with such people.

13

I host one of these “Angel” web sites myself (not on the subject of Irish music, however) and I actually had my visitors suggest I should do something to make a little money. Put a PayPal link or something. I settled on Google ads. People click on them enough I can pay for my server costs.

It may offend some people to see pleas for money, ads or items for sale, but for everyone that is offended, my experience has shown there are 10 others who are asking for it or saying “it’s about time!” because they want to express their gratitude.

I’ve seen this on other sites I participate in as well where the owner says he’s decided by popular demand to put a PayPal donation button and everybody says, “Hooray! It’s about time!”

Maybe it’s an American thing, I don’t know.

14

Hi there,

Annie, advertising for resellers ie shops, Internet, individuals = earn extra income = motivated by money plain and simple. I don’t think I could have panned that assessment out any longer than 2 secs if I tried.

My earlier post never inferred that his entire motivation was financial, only part of it which I referred to from looking at his website.

While it may have been the only part I wished to make any specific comment on re this thread, I never actually knocked him for what he
was doing with this project and I’m sure many beginners will benefit
from it.

Cheers
pkev

15

Worth mentioning is the Comhaltas website, which has improved tremendously over the past year and is now quite a valuable resource. Lots of inspiring video and all the tunes from the two Foinn Seisiun books online under a Creative Commons license:

http://comhaltas.ie/shop/detail/foinn_seisiun_book_volume_1/

16

I think Michael started that out by doing up a couple of tunes at other folks requests, and it grew. He is indeed benefitting many beginners, and intermediates too… Myself among them. I have made a small contribution to his site. Hosting webpages and video is not cheap, hence, to offer free stuff costs the offerer, hence the need to generate funds to cover costs. I don’t begrudge him the business. (not saying you do, just it kind of came across that way.)

I think I do see what you mean though, as folks who take advantage of their community would be less than angels, certainly, and those who only contribute in order to sell would fit that. I don’t see that happening much though. Many sellers in this community came from it, not to it.

Making money selling to your own community is not necessarily a bad thing at all, as long as you give good value and don’t gouge. Buying what you need from within your community is good… it supports the community. Besides, given that this is arguably the main gathering place for the whistling world, it only makes sense that you would find the expertise within the community. I hope that helps clarify what I mean.

17

Well, in some cases overextended egos and money are involved.

Listening to people with dubious playing abilities can do a lot of damage. So do look critically at your gift horse, learn to discern between players with a genuine angle on traditional music and the ones that don’t really have it at all or even have it totally wrong. Listen to genuine music when you’re learning. That’s how I think about it.

18

Hi there again,

Peter wrote:

Well, in some cases overextended egos and money are involved.

Listening to people with dubious playing abilities can do a lot of damage. So do look critically at your gift horse, learn to discern between really good players and the ones that don’t really have it or even have it totally wrong. Listen to genuine music. That’s how I think about it.

A sentiment I would agree with, my first post on this thread did say one might argue as to the value of these kind of teaching videos, lessons etc.
It might perhaps be difficult as well for beginners to discern between really good players and the instruction being offered.

A more discerning player might consider and take the view for example that the breathing, phrasing & ornamentation etc that is being offered with these kind of videos is not quite up to scratch or dubious enough as to cause damage to use peter’s sentiment.

There is a sentiment especially amongst beginners that players who contribute these clips should be financially rewarded for their efforts
by the community they service. It might also be noted that some of
these players may have got themselves into the position of offering lessons by learning from other players within this community at no
cost to themselves.

If I were to acknowledge individuals who deserve recocgnition within this community for their ethos, contribution and effort it would be someone such as Tony Higgins. His endeavours with the Clips and Snips site and the amount of clips he has personally recorded is really worth mentioning. In my view, his work is a true labour of love for trad music that seeks no financial reward.

I don’t know what it is, but to my mind I think there is too muchSpoon feedinggoing on and not enough thinking for oneself and doing with regard to learning trad music these days.

As the innovators of the wagon train I do think a lot of beginners especially the USA ones, tend to jump on any wagon train that passes by. Maybe it’s time to stop, settle down and focus on being and doing.

Cheers
pkev

19

Hi Peter.

Hmmm… Seems like you have someone in mind.

I’m interested in who you think that is.

PM me if you care not name names openly.

20

I have a lot of opinions, I am fussy but please read what I said as a general remark.