I got my start on this board, and want to give something back to the community, so I’ve posted four graduated whistle tunes on my website for you beginner-to-intermediate whistlers to use in the “old traditional way” of learning whistle.
http://www.serpentmusic.com and follow the link to the free “Whistle Practice” page. You can play or download the four tunes I use in my whistle classes at Alcott Arts Center. No charge, no obligation.
Please, enjoy, and if you have questions or comments, don’t hesitate to email me.
Traditionally one was supposed to learn from a good player not a wooden one . Seriously Bill if you can’t play your way through a simple jig, consider joining a beginners’ class instead of trying to teach one.
Now I’m not trying to start up some crap with the boy from county Clare, but I have heard Bill perform several times, and he’s more than adequate for the task at hand, especially given the venue – a community arts center in the midwest – and the audience of complete tyros. We don’t all have access to Mr. Ochs’ classes or to a mentor who has been playing all his or her life, and indeed, that’s not really needed when just starting out. I don’t think Bill is trying to pass himself off as a master instructor, but I think he is making an effort to share what he does know with the commmunity. (And yes, he did link it through Serpent music, but who cares.)
We’re not starting any crap. We’ve had a discussion before about presenting yourself as a teacher to learn by ear, if you want to do it realise you’re setting an example for those who listen to you, if you’re not up to it, don’t teach by ear. I am serious here, the clip of Bill playing the Kesh jig is not something I’d advise any learner as listening material. There’s nothing good in it, you’re better off learning on your own from CDs of good players or from a tutor book.
There’ll be a strong enough showing of admiration and support for BillW in a moment, in case some one is worried.
And it’s something that comes up from time to time: Do you need more than a lathe, the flutomatic calculator, and an electronic tuner to make whistles? Last time that playing the whistle came up, BillW said to that: “I don’t play them, I just make them.” Wonder what happened to that particular sentiment.
[quote=“Bloomfield”]There’ll be a strong enough showing of admiration and support for BillW in a moment, in case some one is worried.
quote]
Soon, I hope.
Coz that was harsh. I wonder what he did to deserve that.
See James, that’s the fun of jumping in as a relative newcomer here, everything is fresh, new and full of mystery You might want to stand back behind the blast shield though, as this thread is likely to get a bit…heated
Blunt, perhaps, but I for one appreciate the honesty. If you’re going to set yourself up as an instructor of anything, you’d better be prepared for some criticism - and if necessary use it as a learning experience. I haven’t listened to the clips (can’t - my daughter’s dog ate my computer speaker wires) so I have no idea what the clips sound like. But I do value Peter’s opinion when it comes to ITM. Beginners seriously interested in ITM should certainly be given a heads up if tunes being given out as learning tools are not up to par.
And before you know it there’ll be a thread about Trad snobs (or snobes as they affectionately called by some), of course with no names named. C&F can be fun.
History teachers told of a war between serpent and the board. I feared this day would come SW2. I shall go to my flame proof shelter now, as I wish not to be scorched.
[Being a Newbie I will just sit and watch.] Popcorns ready, just in time as the Uilleann board war cooled down.
Edited to say this did not work, I was sucked in. :roll:
I once questioned the fact he seemed proud being a ‘pretty lousy player’ and didn’t think it was an admirable quality in a maker of instruments.
he told me (on the 27 of aug 2002 if you want to look it up):
Please don’t judge me or my whistles until you have heard the music.
I have heard him now. and I gave my opinion.
As for the argument that you don’t need an experienced player at the early stages. we have a very experienced instructor in town. She is an absolutely beautiful whislteplayer and she teaches by ear. How she does it I don’t know but even the eight to ten year olds follow her music by example, playing gorgeous little marches and jigs even after six months with all the musicality and bounce you’d be looking for in tunes like that. How you learn at the early stages sets up the difference between playing music and playing notes. Where do you get if your instructor is completely lacking in these qualities?
I’m not gonna say nothing… i like Bill a lot and i believe he does what he does out of the generosity of his heart… but Peter is right. Trust me on this one. I don’t even think he was harsh, just honest. The clips show a lack of basic breath control, intonation control and articulation skills. And the Kesh jig doesn’t really count as “difficult”, imho.
Gee, guys, this is NOT the ITRAD forum!
Bill is NOT from Ireland!
In this country we don’t hear ITRAD music from the time we are
in the womb.
Why would anyone in his area of Missouri care if he just played
“notes” and sounded American or not? In his neck-of-the-woods,
I’m sure it sounds plenty “Irish”.
Lolly
That’s fine. I’m not from Ireland either. I guess it’s nice to have the sound clips there, as long as people don’t think that’s what they should aim for. Check the clips on Brother Steve’s site; i think he isn’t from Ireland either.
The problem Peter and others are referring too is that of putting those up as examples for people to learn from, especially when there are already plenty of examples that were done by people who play well. Bill plays at a novice level. That’s fine, everybody has to start somewhere.
When I was just starting to play the whistle, I remember distinctly (because it wasn’t that long ago) listening to tons of clips all over the internet, downloading music, trying to get a feel for what ITM truly sounded like. I even remember asking on this forum what beginners should be listening to and who we could learn from if we didn’t have excellent teachers nearby.
If someone then had posted tunes on their website and advertised them as learning tools, I’d have appreciated very much if people much more knowledgeable than I about ITM would have given their cricitisms of it so I’d have had some idea about its worth. I’d much rather learn correctly right from the start than learn it incorrectly and have to try to undo bad habits later on.
Bill’s heart is in the right place, but so is Peter’s-he is right about learning from a good player, if you are serious about your music. It is much easier to learn the right way to play. It will reap many benefits and readily show in your music when you play.
If on the other hand, if you just want to fool around at it, and don’t have any big musical aspirations, you can learn something from those clips. And if they are compared to good players clips or cd’s, you can learn how not to play!
I wouldn’t recommend a mediocre player as an instructor, however, if he is the only example to learn from. If he uses good recordings as examples to learn from, then, it doesn’t matter as much how well he plays. But it would still be more helpful to the student to see it done well, in person.
If Bill was playing well in some style other than an Irish style, would you please tell us what it is? You can play Irish tunes with an English folk feel, an Australian bush band feel, an old-timey feel, an easy listening feel or even a jazzy feel. But he wasn’t playing in any of those styles. I love American roots music in dozens of styles but I couldn’t recognise that one.
Interesting that perspective, the cliche comes to mind, “if you can’t do, teach.” Aren’t many music teachers, people that fall back to teaching because they don’t play well enough to make money as performers? A key determinant is the definition of mediocre, just how mediocre can a teacher be and still be effective. The suggestion to use recordings of accomplished professionals is one that even top flight musicians can take to heart, because other musicians will have different interpretations.
Being of limited talent myself, I can appreciate BillW’s willingness to put himself in the spotlight, both in teaching a class, and posting clips on the Internet. I also see that with ITM, the traditionalists pointing out the pitfalls are coming from a place of service, not domination, though it may not come off that way in the harsh pixels of a message board.
You might want to stand back behind the blast shield though, as this thread is likely to get a bit…heated 
