If you are going to get keys,
how many should you get?
Dave Copley offers three options
for retrofitting:
4 keys: C nat, G sharp, long and short F nat
5 keys: same as 4 plus E flat
6 keys: same as 4 plus E flat and B flat
I like to play all sorts of music,
not just Celtic, and I’m a complete
music theory idiot. It’s unlikely
that I will play lots of classical
or sophisticated jazz, however.
Obviously it would
be nice to have a flute that plays
in lots of keys.
Can anyone tell
me what one needs, what these various
options buy one, etc? Obviously
keys cost bucks.
Any help,
opinions, would be welcome. Thanks
Look at the tunes/music you like to play, and see what keys you need to play them.
I’m a fan of six-keys. However, I find it faster to cross-finger C natural, but using the key produces a better tone. You could get a flute with a thumb hole for C natural.
If money is the issue, find a maker that’ll allow you to add keys later.
Bill
[ This Message was edited by: SuiZen on 2003-02-08 08:08 ]
There was a thread on Woodenflute a while back where we all wrote in as to which keys were most commonly used. The use of the C key was a split – some used it predominantly, some not at all. Obviously, since the C natural appears frequently in both trad music and non, those that use the key would use it frequently. Others, like myself, have several ways to hit a decent C and find the key unnecessary (I also find it clumsy, with the exception of the B-C transition.)
I agree with the rest – most trad players use only a few keys, and sparingly. Most common (after the disputed C) are the F# (which set off another long v. short F# dispute – both are equally useful, IMO), the G#, and then it gets dicey. Bb and Eb get into playing in non-trad tune keys, but are still very useful for incidentals and, well, non-trad tunes.
Whenever I try to use my keyed flute (which is not a great flute, and this may be a bit of my problem) for non-trad music, I find myself giving up in short order and using my Boehm. Its invention and eventual over-taking of the conical keyed flute, I think, was not political, but practical. It’s simply easier to play chromatic, or odd-key music on one.
So, for predominantly trad music, I’d say either stick to keyless, or stay down to 4, 5 or 6 keys, depending on your feelings about the C and one or both of the F#s. I’d go with an Eb and Bb, personally, over a C, as these are harder to cross-finger (the Eb is virtually impossible).
Anyway, that’s my take on this all.. may change in a day or two…
There is no substitute for at least six keys on the flute if you want to get on with it without concerns of inadequacy haunting you at every turn. In my opinion, there is no substitute for the accuracy you get with keys. Cross fingering the c nat will never equal the precision and tone of a well made ksy sitting atop a well made Irish Flute. Go for the keys–all the keys. But what do I know anyway.
Jim I don’t know if you need two F keys or a c-nat key but you’d be crazy to not get Eb and Bb Fnat G# as a minimum. Some day you’ll want to play some blues and you’ll thank me.
I recently got a 6-key M&E R&R and find myself using all the keys with G# being least frequent. FWIW
I use all the 6 keys, but at times I find the short F in the way (when playing E flat I angle my right hand and have to concentrate not to touch the shore F).
I use the short F less the long F.
If you go with a thumb hole for C natural, what do you do for B flat?
Thanks, guys. Much appreciated.
My only real Irish flute option is to
retrofit my Copley.
I play blues now–I’m less
good at trad celtic than I
am at other stuff, because
i’ve been playing other stuff
on the street for years.
Maybe I don’t understand,
but I have no trouble half-holing
a B flat, an F natural, and
an Eflat. I’ve been playing
the blues on low D whistles,
you see.
What I can’t do is play in
C on a D whistle, say,
though maybe that’s because
I’ve never really tried.
Of course I have no low C.
What I was hoping for is
an Irish flute on which
I can play literally
anything.
Gordon’s remarks about
Boehm flutes are intriguing.
There is the option, isn’t
there, of sticking with a
keyless flute for trad
and playing a Boehm otherwise?
How much does a good enough
Boehm flute cost? Might save a
lot of money.
I’ve never heard trad played
on a Boehm. Is it a possibility?
Does it sound alright?
Are such people abused at
sessions?
You can get a decent Eb on the keyless flute?!? Low whistles yes,although it’s not easy on most Copeland Low D’s. Cylindrical bore flutes and Olwell Bamboos, I can see, but on most cone bore flutes I’ve found half-holing the Eb virtually impossible to do, in any sort of worthwhile sense…
Since you are comfortable with half-holing, and likely cross-fingering, the Boehm flute would be a good alternative for playing in other keys.
Joannie Madden plays a Boehm flute and whistle, for Irish tunes.
Which Boehm flute to buy??? How about getting a rental to see if you like the Boehm flute. If you like it, the next question is, how much do you want to pay for one.
Bill
[ This Message was edited by: SuiZen on 2003-02-08 11:46 ]
Jim, I don’t know about other sessions, but we don’t abuse the Boehm players at ours…after all, they are a decided minority and probably feeling a bit out of place, poor things.
Certainly IrTrad can be played via Boehm. IMHO, they are less suitable for solo stage playing because the noise of the keys interferes with the tune.
As for simple-system flutes, I go for lotsa keys because I’m just too lazy to perfect the skill of half-holing. Half-holing story: one evening Larry Nugent sat in on a small session, and in typically Nugentian fashion launched into The Silver Spear but changing the accidentals (this on a D whistle) by half-holing; the result was as hilarious as it was awesome. The effect was one of a Westerner’s idea of snake-charmer music, and we were all getting so twirly we were ready to put on turbans! I still can’t duplicate the tune even WITH keys. It was great craic, and remains a fond memory still.
I have a secret (no longer!) envy of those who can half-hole all their accidentals with ease. As I fall short in that regard, again, it’s the keys for me. AND I like the way they look. What price vanity, indeed!
If you’re playing straight trad Irish, I think you could easily get by with just a short F and D#… IMHO… Extra keys than you need are just opportunities for leaks…
Jim, if you want to play Boehm flute for IrTrad, it may be a good idea to get one with open keys -also called “French” keying, I believe. The open keys, like the clarinet, allow for sliding notes but to what degree this can mimic the trad flute I don’t know.
Gee, Jessie, that’s an amazing
whistle–looks like an Abell
being assimilated by the Borg.
Resistance is futile.
A C natural key makes sense to me.
I found this afternoon a
used Artley (sp?) silver
plated flute, 395, with
holes in the keys–needs
some new pads and some general
tuning, otherwise OK.
May or may not buy it.
Yes, you can slide on
the open holes. Seems plain
that this is the way
for a celtically inclined
flautist to go; also
supposed to be better
in general.
Back to Irish flutes:
Will somebody please explain
why there are two F natural
keys–long and short? Thanks again
On 2003-02-08 21:35, jim stone wrote:
I found this afternoon a
used Artley (sp?) silver
plated flute, 395, with
holes in the keys–needs
some new pads and some general
tuning, otherwise OK.
May or may not buy it.
Back to Irish flutes:
Will somebody please explain
why there are two F natural
keys–long and short? Thanks again
The long F is good for slides from D to F natural. The location of the short F key, between the D & F holes makes the slide awkward to finger. The short F can otherwise be used for F natural.
Thanks, Bill. What’s the difficulty
with Artley flutes? Is 395 a lot
of money? I figured a silver plated
flute with holes at that price
was a good deal, and it sounds good,
but what do I know? Please send
me a private message if you
don’t want to discuss
this onboard. Thanks again
Jim, back to your question about Boehms, a decent intermediate-level flute (usually a silver head, silver-plate body, will run somewhere around $5-700, maybe less for some, more for other (brands), and then there’s always used flutes. The eventual expense (infrequent, though) will be occasional re-padding, which is very hard to do yourself.
I have an open-holed – allows for finger-slides, which the closed doesn’t. You should try some at a music store, different brands (some are heavier, some more delicate, etc.) – rent one, maybe – and see if they turn you on. The fingerings are a bit different, but not hard to get used to. They are GREAT for blues or jazz, IMO, better than a wooden flute – I played a silver for rock and blues for several years before I switched to trad playing. They’re generally louder, brighter, and more bell-like in tone (unless you don’t want them to be, but that’s a technique topic).
I started on trad on the silver flute, but I eventually felt/feel it does not play trad music as well, sound/tone/feel-wise (Joanie not-withstanding) for me as a player.
But the topic is subjective, and the Boehm flute is undoubtedly the more versatile beast.
As said on earlier threads, instruments don’t make the music. If you play a lot of blues, I’d try a Boehm, and stick to a keyless for Irish music, which will cover about 98% of the repetoire just fine. If you’re not a purist, you can play any music style on any instrument and, if you do it well, no one else will care either.
I started playing flute on an Artley beginner flute, many many years ago.
The problems that flute had were: (1) the screws would back out of adjustment easily, requiring weekly (!) trips to the repairman; (2) the keys were silver plated base metal, and would gradually bend under normal use; (3) the plating on the whole instrument was very thin and my fingers quickly etched through to the base metal. Also this happened on the embouchure plate.
Having this flute is what first prompted me to learn to do my own flute repairs. Doing the adjustments, for instance, is trivial if you know how. And you can lock those screws down with clear fingernail polish if you’re careful not to get it in the mechanism.
As for the bent keys, that is a worse problem, as a flute with soft keys will need constant adjustments to the pads, which are not trivial, as they require great patience, fine motor skills, and lots of time.
Bear in mind I got that flute in 1978 or thereabouts; there could have been many changes in that brand since then; also, I may have had a “lemon” (although I do know other flutists who encountered the same difficulties).
I would check Ebay for a used Gemeinhardt intermediate. Sometimes you can get them as low as $500, and you’d have a lot more flute for the money, in my opinion.
