What's the motivation for owning non-D keyless flutes when keyed flutes exist?

Irish Flute
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This is probably a noob question, but what’s the motivation for owning a non-D keyed flute?

Assuming you’re trying to play in sessions that play many tunes in the key of D, it seems like a cost-effective flute would be a keyless D. However, if you wanted to play a tune in a different key (not easily achieved via D flute) your options would be 1) buy another keyless flute in different key, or 2) buy a fully chromatic keyed flute. From a cost perspective, it seems like a wash. Owning 2 keyless flute can’t be much more cost effective then owning 1 keyed flute right?

So would the main motivation simply be not having to learn new fingerings for a tune? Or are there other constraints of trying to play certain keyed tune even on keyed flutes? I don’t own a keyed flute (yet), but are there certain ornaments that you can’t do with keys? Like I assume cuts/taps/rolls might not work on certain keyed notes?

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Keyless flutes in other keys have a different range and voice. You can used them as transposing instruments, taking tunes that you already know, and using the same fingering to play the tune in a different key. This allows you to give a different voice to a familiar tune, or to play along with recordings or sessions that are not in D.

The larger, lower key flutes give you access to low notes not available on a keyed D flute, and the smaller higher key flutes give you access to higher notes while also giving you improved responsiveness and ergonomics.

Where they don’t really help is with tunes that contain accidentals. This is where a keyed flute really helps.

I don’t see keyless flutes in other keys as alternatives to getting a keyed flute, or vice versa. In the long run you’ll probably want both.

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Think about how the same question would apply to other instruments:

Why would a fiddle player retune their strings to play tunes in a different key (e.g., tuning strings down to play with a flat set of pipes or tuning strings up a semitone to play with an Eb flute, both of which are common practices) when a fiddle can play in any key?

Likewise, why would a guitar or bouzouki player keep moving a capo around the neck while backing tunes when there are so many chord voicings possible for any key anywhere on the neck?

Paddler already pretty much answered the question: if you already know the tune backwards and forwards in a certain key, say, in D or G, trying to play the same tune in Eb or Ab is likely not worth the ridiculous amount of effort or frustration required, even though it CAN be done, and I’ve personally heard stories about two different very talented flute players showing up at Eb sessions with D flutes and absolutely blowing everyone else’s minds.

Most–but certainly not all–flute players with 6-8-keyed flutes tend to use the keys only for the occasional accidentals that creep up in Irish tunes. They may grudgingly humor fiddle players who love to play tunes in A and give their pinkies a workout on the G#. Likewise, they may explore tunes in keys like G minor if they’re feeling adventurous. Paddy Fahy tunes can be a dangerous gateway drug in this regard.

I’ve owned a keyed flute for more than 20 years, but it’s really only in the past couple of years that I’ve gone much beyond using more than the occasional F natural or G sharp. I recently learned a few tunes in F and G minor from old Scottish collections, and they’re absolutely gorgeous and fun to play, but they’re also on the slower side. I couldn’t see myself busting out with fast reels in F or Bb on my six-key D flute at a session any time soon.

For some players, the deep tone of a lower pitch might be enough of a reason. Playing with certain instruments on a regular basis is often another reason. These days, most any flute player who plays with Highland pipes in a folk band setup will need an Eb flute since the pipes will likely be set up with a Bb chanter, but both musicians will be playing tunes written out in an A mixolydian scale transposed up a semitone.

As for flutes in F, there really aren’t that many practical reasons I can think of for owning one; they’re just really fun to play… And the guitar or bouzouki player can always reach for a capo.

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“Assuming you’re trying to play in sessions”

This assumption is not really correct. I have flutes not in D primarily because I enjoy the sound. I do not have any non-D flutes to play in standard sessions. I do have a B flute to play with others, but not really in a general session. I have an Eb flute more as a fluke than anything, and would play it in an Eb session, or more likely just with the right one or two other people (same as the B flute really). I have an F flute because they’re just really fun to play.

You can listen here for some motivation for owning different keyed flutes:

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RE: cost effectiveness, I play 2.5 flutes on a regular basis. One is a standard keyless D, one is a set of a single head and both a keyless D and a keyless Eb body (hence the .5). If I were to sell all of these, I would have enough to purchase a cheaper 6 keyed flute. Keys are expensive! Most are $250+ a key, and since many keyless flutes themselves go for $1,000ish, you’re talking about 2.5x the price of a keyless for a 6 keyed version.

Now, the main reason I have an Eb flute is that I play somewhat regularly in Eb sessions. It’s a bit of a chicken-and-egg situation, I’ll admit, since I got the flute for Eb sessions but now seek them out because I really like playing the Eb flute. It’s not about playing accidentals, and while it is possible, playing an Eb session with a D keyed flute would be a huge pain.

More cost-effective still is the fact that I have a clutch of whistles in every chromatic key going from Eb down to Bb. These stay in my “session bag” and are there if I need to play in an awkward key. Really, the only one I use with any frequency is the C whistle, for tunes in Gm and F mostly. The others get used more if I’m playing with singers, who often pick “strange” keys to fit their voice. I’d say there might be 1 or 2 tunes every session, at most, where I really cannot play without having keys. With a bit of practice, a half-holed Fnat and G# can be done well enough to reasonably play many tunes that require it. It helps that I play banjo as well, and have a small collection of tunes I only play on banjo given various accidentals.

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I have been in sessions with great musicians who play both keyed and keyless. Though I have seldom seen a player who owns a session ready keyed flute prefer to play a keyless. Availability and price come into play in acquiring a keyed flute. Unless you are in a session that likes that Eb an awful lot there aren’t many tunes that can’t be played on a keyless. I know you can play all the other notes through alternative fingerings and half holing. (I never thought you could play Bb on the keyless D but was corrected last year by someone on a FB page.) I have keys so I have not worked on that though. I got into keyed flutes about a year after I started playing so I lean on the keys where other better players can get the notes out of the keyless. One of the sessions I play in seems to have an affinity for the Volcanic Jig played in a set with the 30 Year Jig followed by Arthur Darley’s at a great rate of speed. It is sort of exhausting. HaHa The fiddler’s who really like to start this set are violinists who took up ITM as adults. For them Bbs are just as common as their F#s. If your session is loud and fast enough you can always skip the notes that are hard or awkward to play. Few will likely notice. In a small setting where every musician can hear every note it may also be ok if done discretely, or not. But most traditional tunes avoid the Bb and the Eb entirely.

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Teague as you’ve seen by the replies your question isn’t “noob” but one that opens a variety of topics with experienced players.

Before physical issues ended my fluting days I had fully-keyed 19th century flutes in D and Eb, lower keyless flutes in C and A, and higher keyless flutes in E, F, G, and A.

For sessions I’d just bring the D flute generally, though the E flute was very handy for when fiddlers would start breaking out tunes in A Major. Yes I could play these easily enough on a keyed D flute but I preferred the way they “fell under the fingers” in the key of G (which the E flute transposed to A).

The other flutes that got the most playing were the big A alto-flute and the little F flute. When just a few of us would gather it was fun for the guitar and bouzouki guys to capo and have familiar tunes sound quite different. But for ordinary sessions, no.

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For me pancelticpiper’s “fell under the fingers” point is a lot of it. I bought an F flute “for fun” as someone said above, not expecting to play it outside the house. However, in non ITM sessions ‘flat key’ trad tunes from various parts of Europe or olden times crop up that fit its range and work for me better than on the keyed D flute - and not just because it’s easier. My hunch is that they originate on an unkeyed wind instrument and started, or ended up, in flat keys to suite the instrumentation of somewhere or somewhen.

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If you play in a band with a singer, you’ll find yourself having to play in the key that the singer wants. If it’s a folk band, you’ll probably know how to play the tune as a D or G tune. But the singer may want something else.

For example, last month I was caught up in a big argument about what key to do “Silent Night” for a concert. That’s a simple tune that everybody knows, right? The argument was between A or Bb. A lot of choirs do it in Bb, and that’s an easy key for fiddle, but the singer said it was just a little too high, and wanted A.

Neither of those keys would be that great for a keyless D flute. It would work out your skills at cross-fingering and generally faking it.

If you played regularly in a band with a singer, I can see having several different keyless flutes as a workable strategy.

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I have an 8-keyed flute, and I play most things on it. The “sharp” key signatures are pretty easy, up until maybe F# maj, I haven’t come across a tune that needs that! The “flat” key signatures are fine right up until Eb/Ab. I can pull off an Eb tune, and I’ve done the occasional Ab tune with a lot of rehearsal, but usually I’ll just pull out a Bb whistle, as that’s the simplest.

The only time I don’t play the flute is if a tune goes lower than a C below low D. Then I’ll switch to my Bb or A whistle, depending on the tune.

I also have an F flute because I sometimes play a bass harmony to a higher-pitched whistle, and I’ve discovered I can sight-read bass clef music as treble clef if I use an F flute. As long as the key signatures work out, what’s normally a “D” note on treble clef becomes an F in bass clef, making it an easy transposition.

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Fintano exactly!

At a gig you just never know what key a singer will want. Guitarists have capos, I have a roll of whistles in every chromatic key. As you say I’ll know the tune in the D-whistle/flute/pipes-based fingering and let the whistle transpose it.

A woman I know who is a very good Boehm flutist was set to do a set with a guitarist/singer. They rehearsed beforehand, the songs were in comfortable keys (for the Boehm) like C, G, etc.

Then onstage, right when they were going to start their set, the guitarist-singer put on a capo at the first fret!!! So the C songs were now in Db, the G tunes in Ab, and so on.

She did it, but it was difficult to play everything a half-step off where they had rehearsed.

For me I’d just grab an Eb Low Whistle or Flute and be fine.

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WhistlingGuitar yes there are a few popular Trad Session reels, loved especially by the fiddlers and 4-string banjo players, that dwell on the G string.

Nearly all session whistlers and fluters just use their D instrument playing large chunks of the tunes an octave up, however on a Mezzo G or Mezzo A whistle or flute you can play these tunes perfectly. (Some on the G, some on the A, depending.)

Ages ago I used to play these tunes on a Boehm Alto flute, which has the same normal range of Irish Trad fiddle tunes, from the open G on the G string up to B on the E string.

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Thanks for the great responses everyone. I’ve learned a lot!

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And the next question, what about keyed flutes other than D?

With my forthcoming lottery winnings (Ha!) I’d have a keyed low A for the tessitura (range) and a keyed F for giggles.

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For sure it would be cool to have something like Matt Molloy’s keyed Alto flute in Bb.

Like the Siccama system flute it has keys rather than open holes for both ring fingers, making for a more comfortable reach and bigger tone on those notes.

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Funnily enough, in the whistle world most of the comments about the keyed MK Chameleon whistle are, why bother as we have whistles in different keys. Maybe because whistles are generally cheaper to buy?

I’ve been playing (and still learning!) uilleann pipes since 1998 on a keyless chanter and never felt the need for any keys. Just asking for more potential maintenance issues really.

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I started the uilleann pipes in the late 1970s with a typical beginner’s one-key chanter, but around 1980 I went all-out and got a David Quinn chanter with five keys (including one for High D). Over time I’ve used every single key for some tune or other.

In the TV show Friends a woman who is dabbling in guitar watches amazed as a professional guitarist plays tons of chords she doesn’t know.

With wonder in her eyes she asks “How many chords do you know?”

“All of them.”

So when people ask me “How many keys does your chanter have?”

“All of them.”

(And yes I’m still a learner on the pipes!)

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I have a 6-key low Bb Lehart flute in blackwood, love it. While it’s fun to take any tune I’d normally play on my keyed D flute and just play it with standard fingering at a lower pitch, the real utility is being able to play all those great G dorian tunes composed by fiddlers without “folding” the low notes. Low Bb seems to be the most popular choice for artists like Molloy and Sylvain Barou as a low flute for airs and such.

All the notes in a G minor tune can be played normally on a keyless low Bb flute. But for G dorian, you need the Eb raised to E. You can do that with half-holing, but it’s so much easier to have a key (equivalent to a G# key on a D flute) on a big flute like this.

A keyed low Bb is a beast, but I don’t have any trouble with the hand stretch and the weight isn’t too bad. It takes some embouchure adjustment. My biggest problem is swinging it around, forgetting about the length, and knocking a glass off the table next to me.

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It is true that Gmin/Gdor (as well as Dmin/Ddor) tunes frequently dip lower than D, but most frequently, you only need the low C note, and 8-key D flute solves that problem. True, most modern keyed flutes have 6-keys, and many antique 8-keyed flutes may or might not have enough renovation or sealing for the C-foot keys to sound clearly. My R&R is superb on low-C, but I did have to work on my embouchure and breath to hit the low notes.

Also, those low C/C# notes produce nice, strong middle C tones via the harmonic (vent either L1 or L2). It’s even possible to do actual C/C# rolls (low or middle), admittedly with a bit of pewter clatter.

Playing in Dmin or Gmin on a D flute requires learning finger agility on the Fnat and Bb keys, which will take a bit of practice.

I absolutely love the dark tone of my R&R in the flat keys. I have a hard time enjoying Junior Crehan’s “Caisleán An Óir” in Amin, because the Gmin version is so dark and beautiful. I’m sensitive to the “feel” of a key signature, and it’s obvious on this tune that Gmin was the original composition.

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[quote]Playing in Dmin or Gmin on a D flute requires learning finger agility on the Fnat and Bb keys, which will take a bit of practice.

I absolutely love the dark tone of my R&R in the flat keys. I have a hard time enjoying Junior Crehan’s “Caisleán An Óir” in Amin, because the Gmin version is so dark and beautiful. I’m sensitive to the “feel” of a key signature, and it’s obvious on this tune that Gmin was the original composition. [/quote]

Some time ago I heard a man, in Friel’s, play Paddy Carty’s ‘Galway Bay’ on a D flute, he obviously put in the work using the keys and he made a very fine job of it.

I am not quite sure it matters what key Junior composed the tune in. A lot of his compositions are quite freely played in keys other than the original. Few people still play the Mist covered mountain in its original Gm, for example. And neither did he, most of the time (although I would agree with the preference for that key).The Otter’s holt and the Luchrachán both moved up from their original keys as well. And he was flexible about keys himself.
But not Farewell to Miltown Malbay, that seems to, mostly, stay in Gm.

Add:
On that note, the Junior Crehan tunebook will be relaunched during the Lahinch trad weekend around 17-19 April.

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