Ok, beginner question time. I’m sure this must have been asked before but I must be searching for the wrong words. A link to a previous discussion would be appreciated if anyone knows of one.
How do you ornament a C natural note? (I play it cross-fingered, OXX OOO)
How do you ornament a C sharp? (OOO OOO) So far all I’ve done is a tap or two quick taps in succession.
I have two different tunes (both jigs, by the way), one with the C natural and one with the C sharp, that seem to want something there but I’m not sure what to do with those notes.
Hmmm, for the C#, I personally have no clue beside the tap. But for the CNat, what I sometimes do is a “cran hybrid” on the three holes below, which gives a high D cran. It can’t be a real cran as you still have to hear the CNat as the main note. I think the effect is neat if not overused. Anyway, if you want an example just e-mail me or private msg me.
I don’t ornamment c-nats or c-sharps if you mean by that anything more than a cut. Most whistlers I’ve heard don’t ornament these notes. If you are playing nice and steady, a long un-ornamented note should be nice. You can also take a breath there, for instance by going czc instead of c3 (z is a pause). That’s what Larry Nugent does on “Fahy’s Jig” (track 1 on the Windy Gap CD).
I have several whistles (noteably my Hoover Whitecap, my Generations, and my older Feadog) for which the best fingering for C nat. is OXX XOX, and for those, slapping down R2 to play D or switching to XOO OOO to play B is fairly simple, and I have no problems playing cuts, taps or turns (you might see if you can use this fingering on any of your whistles…not all of them work with it). My other whistles prefer either OXX OOO or OXX XOO, and those I don’t ornament the C nat much.
'Bout the only ornament I regularly do on a C# is a slide.
Deirdre Havlin ornaments Cnats beautifully in King George IV (on Deanta’s “Ready for the storm” as well as the Wooden Flute Obsession CD). I have no idea how she does it. Anyone have a clue?
I’m working on the Cnat roll using a vented high-D for the cut and a G for the tap. It’s not easy, but then I still haven’t made much headway in A or B rolls.
These are the whistles, in order: Clarke original unpainted, Clarke original black paint, Clarke Sweetone unpainted; Clarke Meg silver paint; Feadog D.
For C-sharp, I have been working on a kind of cran:
o o o | o o o
x x o | o o o (tap)
o o o | o o o
x o o | o o o (tap)
o o o | o o o
I don’t have a suitable recording of this technique yet; this is still a work in progress, but I see no reason why with practice it can’t be made to work.
It seems to follow, then, that you could also cran a vented high D by cutting with R2 for a Cnat, then cutting with L2 (or L2 and L3) for a C#, or vice versa. I know that repeatedly cutting with L2 yields a nice trill.
Mick O’Brien does a perfect roll based on 0XX 000 fingering, but then he’s Mick O’Brien. I think that what he plays is more or less
0XX 0X0 -
0XX XX0 -
XXX 0X0
You can also do the piper’s choke-the-chicken Cnat by very gradually but simultaneously uncovering the G and C holes so that you slide up to the note, then play a vibrato with the G finger. Much easier, and gives a wild or “lonesome” tone.
Hmmm okay, I’ll probably sound negative, but… I don’t really “agree” with the
OXXOOO
OXXXXX
OXXOOO
XXXOOO
OXXOOO
To my ears, the roll doesnt come out as neat as a normal roll. I used to practice that roll a lot because it was cool, but at the end I dropped it. The problem also shows up on louder whistles which require more air from CNat to high D.
Does anyone have a sample of a professionnal recording that has some of these ornamentations?
L.D. McCullough deals with both these issues in great detail in his book on learning the whistle; that’s a reasonably authoritative source.
Jon Michaels
I haven’t tried that roll much, but my first thought is that it does seem a little awkward, especially the part where you “cut” by adding three fingers. I think that would tend to make the roll much les crisp than a normal roll. Also, as you point out, on whistles where there’s a gap in air requirements from Cnat to high D, the roll would probably be even more bothersome to implement (this, BTW, is a feature I definitely don’t like in whistles!).
Personally, I don’t finger ornament Cnat and C# much. While it can obviously be done, I consider those notes less “suitable” for finger ornamentation. And I don’t see that as an inherent weakness in whistles which has to be overcome, but rather as one of the whistle’s idiosyncrasies; in other words an example of those little (and big!) differences in what various instruments are “good at” and “not so good at”, which - together with the difference in sound - is what makes each instrument special and interesting to me.
I agree with Azalin. That roll just doesn’t do it for me. A better option is to start with the oxxxox fingering and proceed thusly:
oxxxox C
oxxxxx D “cut”
oxxoxx C
oxxxxx D “cut”
oxxxox C
So you’re just trading your 4 and 5 fingers, grabbing the D in between. It’s a crannlike thing.
For C#, you might try spreading your upper hand fingers and fanning them down across the first hole, which gives you a series of stuttering B cuts. It looks pretty flashy, too. The only challenge is getting your fingers back on the proper holes. Practice makes less imperfect.
Like Bloo, Az, Jens and Rob I remain unconvinced by C-nat rolls. Put it this way, I’ve yet to hear one that sounded convincing and I haven’t been able to make it sound convincing myself.
Just tried your C-nat “cran” Rob and it sounds as though it might sound quite reasonable indeed with a bit of practice. Not sure if I’ll bother though! As for the C# cran - yes verrry interesting. (I am quite sure I won’t bother with that though.).
Here’s an alternative that I thought up for long (dotted eighth-note) Cs and C#s, it’s an imitation of a fiddling thing and it has a fairly high cheese factor so use with care.
C-nat “wah-ah-wah”
oxx-ooo
oxx-xxo
oxx-ooo
There is a small, barely pereceptible drop in pitch in the middle note that adds a little texture to your otherwise long C. It’s like the e-d##-e or A-G##-A thing that fiddlers do going from open string to fourth finger on the next string down and back again. (I put two sharps to show that the middle note is only a microtone flat of the main note,)
As I say, use sparingly and with delicacy otherwise your tackiness quotient will rise unacceptably. I like to do this in reels such as the Congress of Hunter’s Purse where there is a long C-nat towards the end of each part that cries out for a little relief (and as I said, C rolls don’t cut it (ha ha) with me).
The cheesiness is balanced out somewhat by the subtlety - hardly anyone will notice, and then only if you’re playing solo.
For C# (even more cheesy)
ooo-ooo
oxo-ooo
ooo-ooo
Also like to do a wah-ah-wah on A in the first octave in tunes where I would do the same thing on the fiddle, such as the first note in the Moher/Abbey reel:
By the way, on the newest Christy Barry CD there’s a tune where he plays a “roll” on the high D, it’s like two cuts in a row, and it’s quite neat with some practice. But it doesnt always work (for me), so I can’t yet use it to impress girls at the session. (hu, there’s NO girls at the session!)
