Hi all, my name is Inge, and even though I registered here a while ago never got to posting then. I’m not much of a whistle player even though I think I got my first whistle about thirty years ago or so. As a kid a I played piano and recorder and for fun messed about with some whistles, but never really go on with them. Prolly because I never really understood what a great instrument a whistle is. After a decade or so of not playing anything I got myself a guitar and learnt a bunch of chords on that, and then found a cheap violin in a web shop and got that because as a kid what I’d really wanted to play was a violin. So I got into learning the fiddle and stumbled back onto a booklet of irish tunes I’d gotten way back in the recorder days. Before I knew it I was hooked, both on the fiddle and on the tunes. Since then a couple times I dug out the old whistle and messed with that some, but never happy with how that went, how I sounded. Last summer I think it was last time and then I looked around on this board some and did a bit of tweaking on some of the old cheap whistles I had. That made a good difference and then recently one of the folks I play tunes with got hisself a really nice whistle by Tony Dixon, the heavy brass one, and I played on that a bit and really loved how it played and sounded. Got a cheaper Dixon brass whistle last week and I’m real pleased with that, and got back into reading here, and listening to a lot of whistle vids, and trying to play tunes on the whistle of course. Breathing is something I have to pay a lot of attention to, silly, because one would think it to be more natural then bowing. But then, when I talk I sometimes tend to think I can say more with one breath then I actually can as well. I guess it’s a matter of working on that a lot.
Another thing is the ornaments, and that’s where the questions begin, how to do rolls and cuts and triplets, that sort of thing. I’ve found how to do a roll on the notes “in the middle” so to speak, but how about a roll on the all holes closed, or all holes open notes?
Also, I forgot exactly where, but I recently read/saw somewhere that on a D whistle a Csharp can be fingered "top::OOOXXX " instead all holes open. For the consistency of tonality I think I prefer the fingered one, but that could just be because I still can’t play properly. I guess it’d be something like the high d, vented or not, where it just depends on just about everything. Couldn’t find a discussion on it, so if anyone can point me to one, please do
As I was lurking around this place I found a lot of helpful information already, thank you all who contributed to this vault of whistle knowledge. It also comes across to me as a very friendly place, so I’m pretty sure I’ll be stopping by more often, as long as the whistle fancy lasts this time
No you can’t roll xxxxxx because there is no lower note, but you can do a cran.
For oooooo the answer is in part the answer to your next question which is yes (though its possible that some whistles will work differently to others), so:
oooxxx C#
oxxxxx
oooxxx
xooxxx
oooxxx
if that makes sense.
and yes oooxxx results in a C# - at least on my whistle - and is quite useful at times
And for the record any combination of fingers that produces something useful on a particular whistle is … well … useful! And if a ‘standard’ finguring doesn’t work then it is not useful - a common example would be, dare I mention it, C natural oxxooo which does not work very well on some whistles tough oxxxoo may or you can just half hole.
Ditto what highwood said. With the caveat that I don’t know any trad whistle players who routinely roll C#. None.
oooxxx is a lazy fingering. Best not to think of that as an actual fingering. It’s just one example of the fact that you can leave (or, in anticipation, place) fingers down below the played note. For example, when playing the sequence d-c#-d at speed, you can leave the right hand down. Lazy fingering is very common among good players.
Another question, for some reason I have a hard time convincing my left thumb (top hand) to keep on the whistle (I’m not really being too hard on it for that atm), to the point where it’s most of the time just hanging there. Is this a cardinal sin?
My right little finger is on the whistle most of the time though, as relaxed as it sits on top of the bow when I play, sometimes lifting off for a moment or so.
The left thumb is your main under-whistle support. So if it’s floating in the wind, that’s not good. Both thumbs should always be solid and steady on the tube.
The bottom pinkie (little finger) technique varies a lot among players. In my case, it’s usually down for top hand notes, and up for bottom hand notes. I think anchoring it (à la Grey Larsen) is too restrictive. But honestly, I don’t even think about it. That finger has a life of its own, which it refuses to discuss with me.
When it makes musical sense so to do, I roll both “open” C# (as set out by highwood) and middle D (though more often I cran that). I roll it thus:
oxx xxx
xxx xxo
oxx xxx
ooo xxx
oxx xxx
takes a bit of practice and careful choice of context even when you get the finger-switches clean and fluent… but sounds fine when you get it right.
BUT I quite accept that doing so isn’t within the mainstream canon of ITM technique. Am I a “trad whistle player”, O Guru?
I agree with MTGuru that the ooo xxx middle C# fingering is a “lazy” one - useful in certain contexts (swift passing notes and ornaments) but generally to be eschewed - it will almost always be a bit flat (even the open C# tends to be a tad flat) and will also have a more veiled tone. Ditto not venting the middle D, which can also make it hard to hit cleanly. These things are variable from whistle to whistle, however, and e.g. on some whistles not venting the middle D can give a nice bassy edge to the tone.
My left thumb is not so solid on the whistle. But then the whistle has a thumb hole, so the thumb is busy same as the other fingers of the left hand. The right hand thumb is solid on the whistle though. And the right hand ring finger is called to give support when the left fingers including thumb are flying. The right pinky hangs in the air and waits for its own hole to appear, poor little devil!
I guess I should have added that I have never actually used a C# roll or had occasion to - given MTGuru’s comment I’m also not going to spend much time perfecting it!
Thanks for all the input guys! I think I can get used to the left thumb on the whistle. Maybe it’s because I used to play recorder as a kid, and at times rather obsessively so, and back then when playing on a whistle I’d take the thumb off to remind me to use whistle fingerings instead recorder fingerings. It’ll take some minding and it took a slight change of hand position for the fingers to be relaxed on the holes and my wrist not needing to bend back as much. Perhaps once the thumb knows well to stay put the right pinky will go flying/floating about a bit more instead of sitting put on the whistle.
So one doesn’t roll a C sharp, but one could, but no-one does. So what does everyone do when there’s a C sharp what sort of begs to be ornamented in some way? Where on fiddle I’d put a (short) roll or a triplet type thing.
Also, what’s the whistle equivalent of the “bowed same-note-triplet” on fiddle?
“fiddle bowed same note triplet” - equivalent on whistle/flute is either (most usually) a roll (or a cran if you’re on a D or maybe an E) or a double cut of some kind or (if you’re prone to Finnegan/Whelan style tongue-tricks) a triple tonguing technique of some kind. As for the C# and your last question, see my previous contribution - it’s there to be done if you wanna do it and the music calls for it. Same applies to the tonguing techniques, really - though they are an issue of style/taste as well as merely of available technique.
Thanks! For now I’m at the stage of figuring out what’s all available on the whistle ornamentation wise, and then learning how to do those things. Then to try them out in tunes, what I like I keep, what I don’t like I leave. Then hopefully I’ll be left with playing the tune in a way that I like, and then it’s up to everyone else who happens to hear me to decide for themselves if they think I’ve good taste or not.
Right now I’m at the stage where when I reach for the whistle my husband reaches for his headphones. Although, not always, the other day he got a drum and started thumping along to what I was tooting out ;D
A question of another nature crossed my mind, new fiddles and guitars and things take a while to break in. They get sounding better the more they get played. So now I was wondering, is there something like that with whistles as well? I’m nowhere near playing consistent enough to be able to be sure, but a couple times over the first couple of days having this new whislte and playing it regularly I thought that it didn’t sound the same. I’m thinking it’s prolly other factors, the whistle is made of some sort of plastic for the head and metal for the body, so how would it change? Maybe it’s just a matter of my playing being off at times and less off at other times. Or perhaps changes in the weather would effect how one hears the same sound. With the fiddle I’m used to it never sounding quite the same, the weather being a major factor and then the strings going through changes as they get older. Different rosin, more or less of the stuff. Having just cleaned the strings after being lazy about it for too long. Fun stuff to notice, and learn to recognise what’s what.
I don’t think a whistle will “mature” the way stringed instruments do. The main changes come as you learn to play them better, (breath control and the like). Acoustics of the room will change the sound a LOT, and the weather can be a factor to a lesser extent.
To reduce irritation for yourself and spouse, you might consider doing your practicing on lower-pitched whistles, (below high D). It’s easier on everyone, and may also protect your hearing over the long term.
Turning your question around (and it’s a good question): What do you do on fiddle when, say, a long open A or e begs to be ornamented? Where on whistle you would easily roll the note.
The point being that every instrument has its limitations, and how you negotiate those become an important part of the characteristic style.
For the fiddle, you could treble the A or e, or cut it, or play a melodic variation around it, or play a double stop, etc. On whistle C# you can slide to it, or tap or cut it, or use strong finger vibrato, or play a variation around it, etc.
I know loads of those… but I’m English! (Just crazy 'cos I live in Wales???)
Good point made by MTG about the fiddle (guitar etc.) open string analogy - to which one solution is the string equivalent of the cran - a double or triple cut (with different fingers to different places in the string usually). Oh yes, and I agree with his other suggestions about the open C# too.
Except that whistles may “mellow” as they accumulate crud in the fipple. Ewww. Cleaning then becomes a dilemma between restoring the original tone and avoiding a horrible whistle-born disease.
Another thing … I find that my perception of whistle tone is particularly subject to conditioning by whatever else I’ve been listening to - including other whistles. More so than other instruments in my experience. It’s a sort of refractory effect - like tasting food or wine, or sniffing perfumes. And it lengthens the process of evaluating whistles, allowing time for resting the ears and cleansing the aural palate. Fiddle, with its rich harmonic complexity, has a strong effect if you’re susceptible.
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