I thought I ought practice some C naturals (especially half-holed), and found a nice tune. But at one point the tune calls for three consecutive C naturals. If I try to separate half-holed C naturals by a half-pitch up or down it sounds just like bad playing (ok worse than I can normally manage at any rate).
My best guess is playing oxxoxx (or oxxxox) and decorating with oxxxxx. It sounds a bit clunky to me - but that could just be my playing. Is there a better decoration? Are there others to try? Or should I just tongue the notes to separate them?
Thanks pancelticpiper - I hadn’t made the connection with closing the high hole, and thence the possibility of turning the sequence into a roll. I know all the theory - why on earth didn’t it occur to me? Ah well. I get the ‘silly hat’ today.
Practising that is going to be fun.
Don’t you find any use for half-holing the middle c-natural? I am far from expert but it seems it could come in useful - especially in the tune I am learning as it jumps from middle c-nat to high c-nat. Of course, my ear may well be too poor to realise the degree of dissonance I am causing by half holing…
Both half-holing and cross-fingering are useful skills to have. Learn both. Practice tunes with both so that you can switch at will, I’d say.
As for the three C-naturals, you could also use a “passing tone”–play c-b-c or c-d-c. Also you can passing tones up or down; if your next downbeat was on a g, for instance, you could to c-b-a-g.
Also this might be a good place to grab a quick breath: c-breathe-c.
(1) I tried PanCelticPipers suggestion and it seems to flow well into a roll on B shortly after. The roll seemed to change the rhythm slightly for the better, a change that flows out into the rest of the tune in little ripples. This is probably the first time I have been aware of such an effect, though maybe I am making too much of it.
(2) My fingers however had other ideas and suggested =c{d}=c{B}=c. The first two C natural are cross-fingered, but the last is half-holed off the B. Are my fingers more musical than my brain? I should note that I am probably not fingering these fast enough for them to gain credence as true ‘rolls’, but they sound better to my ear than three consecutive notes. And it fits well with dropping back to the B after…
(3) Non of my books mentioned the roll on C natural. Hannigan even implies that there isnt one… and it sure feels weird to close a hole to cut up then close a hole to go pat down.
(4) Peeplj - do you mean with a ‘passing note’ c-b-c or c-d-c that the c’s are natural or that by dancing around the natural I will achieve a suitable trick on the ear? Sorry if that’s a dumb question…
(5) MTGuru - The tune is Wild Geese in the OCanainn book. I have found it called ‘Lament for the Wild Geese’ or ‘Lament for Wild Geese’. But I will include the ABC to avoid any confusion. The last section is good practise for my breath control - but still difficult enough to make me concentrate. OCanainn uses parentheses to indicate phrasing - I have reproduced it here as in his book. The three c naturals are in the second and third lines.
Ah. Well, now, see, in that tune, Phill, I wouldn’t do a roll on the c nats at all. It’s possible to do a roll effectively taking up the time of the first two, but not the third. And it’s also possible to do a cut followed by a tap, but not in the rhythm of a roll. Personally, if I were playing that tune, I would play the three c nats just straight, as they are, with soft tonguing, making a ‘d’ noise instead of a ‘t’ noise to produce the tongued note, and holding each one of the notes for as near as possible to a full crotchet.
Now that we know the context, I wonder if others would agree with me, or would you still stick to a long roll?
The third c is a kind of grace. So separate the first 2 however you want: cut, tongue, slide. If you play the 3rd c, I’d articulate it as a separate grace:
First I read what you had both said with a sinking feeling - I had got it wrong…
Then when I played one of your suggestions MT:
|c2 c2 {Bc}BA|B2 B2 {Ac}AG|
it seems quite close to what I arrived at in my point 2
|c2{d}c2 {Bc}BA|B2{c}B2 {AB}AG|
bearing in mind that my rolls are probably not rolls at all as my timing is ‘non too crisp’ (same as my use of musical terminology, then ).
I prefer the notes with the decorations at the moment, Ben, but that may be because I am just learning how to do them (kid with a new toy syndrome). When/if I can do them well I may decide to drop them on artistic grounds. Newbies are allowed self indulgence for a while I hope.
MT you said cut with a slide? c{B}c ? To match the next phrase with B{c}B ?
I’ve nothing to add to what others have said regarding this specific instance/tune (other than that I find those O’Canainn transcriptions virtually useless - they give me no usable idea of how the tunes should sound!).
However, on the more general point of ornamenting/articulating C naturals, yes you can do proper rolls on them - plenty of old threads on both whistle and flute fora, I think (try this one or this one and others it links to…)- but it isn’t in Hannigan’s book and other sources because it isn’t an “accepted” part of mainstream ITM flute/whistle/pipes technique - an issue discussed in the threads I’ve linked…
BAU for me - all music notation is mostly just a way of getting some software to wheeze out an approximation . I can use it as a memory jogger now, but only once I know the tune. I envy those who can hear the music straight from the page.
I have read those now, thanks. Lots to think about. I am not sure I am cut out to be an ITM fundamentalist - if it sounds nice I will pilfer it.
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. I can use it as a memory jogger now, but only once I know the tune. I envy those who can hear the music straight from the page.