Most of the discussion on this site about delrin/polymer flutes seems to be about the beginner/budget/student keyless models offered by makers like WD Sweet, Somers, Forbes, Seery, and others, many of whom do not make wooden flutes or flutes with keys. This gives the impression that delrin flutes are starter or budget flutes, and that once one has the expertise and the budget one is expected to buy a nice (generally keyed) wooden flute. But I know that some makers, like Copley, McGee, and Hamilton make keyed delrin flutes at the same or similar prices to their wooden counterparts, and people must get these if they’re offering them.
Have any of you opted for delrin over wood from some of these makers, and what were your reasons for doing so? Do you play both wood and delrin flutes, or are you strictly polymer? Do you think your flute sounds as good as the same maker’s wooden model?
I’m not really in the market and not looking for buying advice or “I tried that flute once,” I’m mainly looking for experiences from owners.
Regarding top makers, Vincenzo Di Mauro offers all his flute models both in wood and delrin, to mention one.
I play wooden, delrin and bamboo flutes, all from different makers.
As for the reasons, every flute has its own character be it wooden, delrin or anything. Every tune has its character. Some tunes sound better on a sweet tone flute like bansuri, some on prattens. Sound of top makers’ flutes, imho, is closer to a ‘standard’ flute sound used in ITM and expected by experienced listeners. That sound is even influenced, if not defined, by the top makers of the present and the past.
The only drawback of delrin, imho, is its heat capacity different from the wood, i.e. it takes heat from hands at a different rate than wood. It could feel a bit unnatural if you used to play wooden instruments. Delrin can be slippery, but it is a matter of the surface finish.
I’d never take a wooden flute out during cold months. Playing in the field in autumn would be impossible for me without a delrin flute then.
For what it is worth, I have Ward Hawkes flute models in both Delrin and blackwood (the Delrin a “travel flute”). Both great flutes, with a big sound, but I do prefer the blackwood. It could easily be subtle differences in the cut of the embouchure, or the fit of the tennons, but I find the blackwood has a slightly more complex tone, which I like better. Of course my wife prefers what she calls the more “pure” sound of the Delrin, so YMMV.
I love my 5 key Baubet delrin flute, and so has everyone who has played it. Having owned and played wooden flutes (from keyless Sweethearts to antique cocus antique American flutes)…I really can’t tell a difference, and listeners have all agreed…I sound like me whichever flute I play. While they may prefer the tone of one flute over another, it’s not based on the material of the flute…and most can barely, if at all, hear the difference.
FWIW, Francois makes his flutes both in wood and delrin.
Play what you like, but it was grand having a delrin flute for the Festival I played this weekend…mornings in the 40s and afternoons in the 70s (playing in the sun)…I just didn’t have to worry about the flute at all. Peace of mind means a lot to me.
I own/play Copley & Boegli keyless flutes with the long foot, silver rings and tuning slides made in both African Blackwood and Delrin. Both were made with the same care and attention to detail. Each play and sound similar. They are both good flutes period, IMO. The delrin flute is marginally heavier. No keys on either of those (I do own a keyed polymer flute from another maker). Fit and finish is a very high quality on both. I purchased the blackwood flute first. I like it a lot. It has as a result of use developed a crack in the head joint twice. The maker has done repairs expertly. I bought the delrin flute for durability at Copley’s suggestion. It is the one that comes out with me at the changes of the seasons in the Fall or early Spring.
I also own a Copley three-piece delrin flute with rings and the short foot and no slide. It is also a good flute. While it may have been priced for a beginner’s budget there is nothing lacking in quality, performance or tone.
I own and have owned a lot of other polymer flutes, many in delrin. Yes, some are made for beginners and one might grow out of them over time. No need to mention makers names. But others from well regarded makers like you have listed are made well enough to play for life with no worries that they won’t last that long or longer.
Delrin is just another option for a suitable flute making material along with many different timbers. It’s what the flute maker does with it that matters most.
I primarily play flutes from Glenn Watson; keyless and 6-keyed Rudall-type in blackwood. However, a few years back I lucked into a delrin Paddy Ward instrument. I would definitely put the latter into the “high end” category as it competes quite favorably in tone, playability, and intonation with the Watsons. Different tone—actually all three differ in tone as the keyless Watson has an unlined head and the keyed flute has a lined head—but equal in sound, both to me as the player and those hearing it, to the blackwoods.
As mentioned by others, it’s a bit heavier but not so much as to be a hindrance for extended playing. And, also previously mentioned, I wouldn’t consider taking the wooden instruments out in inclement weather, but the Delrin can go anywhere at any time.
I would consider making flutes from this material if it was as easy to work as blackwood and other woods. Its harsh on tools. The fumes and chips produced when machining are not friendly.
The main difference between inert plastics and wood that I see is that wood will change its shape slightly over time, usually resulting in a little more immediacy to the tone, a richer and more complex sound, and perhaps greater volume. The main deformation observed is the bore going from the reamed or drilled perfectly round to ever so slightly oval. I have machined this into flutes at the outset to accelerate this process and observe this result on a new instrument. This could easily be done on a Delrin instrument.
However, something else akin to the aging of stringed instruments also appears to happen. The wood becomes a bit more vibratory with age perhaps and adds a few percent or tenths of a percent to the overall energy of the instrument. This is why some of the older flutes will outplay their modern copies.
I doubt if the same thing happens with Delrin. But I do have this question for the Delrin flute players: do you notice any changes in the tone, playability, response etc. with your flute over time or does it more or less stay the same?
I’ve considered using Alternative Ivory for flutes and actually made a few in the 1990s. However, this material is not stable in lengths longer than the length used for mounts. I have a 35mm rod of it out in the workshop that I stored semi vertically and it has bent into an arc of 4-5 degrees!
Casey - I’ve not notice a change in my delrin (or ebonite) flutes with time, and I played my ebonite flute for about 10 years. I played a former delrin flute for 5 years. However, considering these materials…maybe that’s not long enough to know about the effect of age on these instruments.
I have played an old ebonite Chappelle flute, but it was ebonite around a metal bore. I will say it’s one of the loveliest playing flutes I’ve had the opportunity to play. It’s about 120 years old now and still going strong (if slightly brownish green in color now).
I’m still not sure how we can factor out the observer effect in all of this. One of the prettiest sounding fiddles I’ve heard in person is a 3 year old Geels. Lovely, lovely sound, but is that the particular instrument, the fine player, or what? Will it truly get better with age or will we give credence to it’s getting better as it ages simply because that’s our expectation?
My guitar making friends up the road in Nazareth have done a lot of research into the molecular structure of the woods in some of their old guitars. They’ve considered much of the same inquiries into old violins as well. They presently propose that the long slow drying of the spruce is the key. They also seem to find that torrefied spruce comes pretty close to that molecular structure and to the sound of the old, aged tops.
So Casey, I know you’ve torrefied more than a flute or two in your videos but maybe you could look into vacuuming out the oxygen when you do that to keep the wood from burning to ashes. Who knows, maybe torrefied cocus or blackwood is the answer.
Lord knows what happens to a delrin flute over the course of a century but the Delrin and other polymer flutes I have owned for a decade or more seem to remain the same. When they are responsive and full toned at the beginning they seem to stay that way over time. They don’t go all stuffy as I have experienced with some (but obviously not all) timber flutes.
Delrin or polyacetal rods will also “warp” if not cut to shorter lengths or stored properly. Gravity has its effect on all materials. I do not find the care of Delrin to be much different from sticking and rotating my timber stock. Simply cut the rods to appropriate lengths and store them in a sturdy rack which will maintain the straight shape. There’s no “resting” the material between milling steps and you don’t have to wax the ends or manage the humidity of the delrin stock - UV exposure still has to be considered. And it is always ready to turn. It’s fully seasoned right out of the box.
I find Delrin to be a very predictable and easy material to turn/bore. There are no surprises with it such as you may encounter with timbers. And I’ve never experienced limestone inclusions, voids or resin pockets in Delrin. I think it is merely a matter of knowing the material you are using. Sharp tools, proper turning and feed rates are the key with any material. The procedures used for wood may not apply to a polymer. So we learn what process works best for each workpiece. That’s part of being a craftsperson. It is sensible to work safe with any material as well. Wood allergies are well documented. So we wear the masks and hoods, wear appropriate clothing and we keep the air clean and clear. Working with plastics requires the same care. Fumes don’t come off the material if the tools are sharp, the feed and speed rates are appropriate and the cutter profile is no larger than it needs to be to do the job. And the dust collector and ventilation systems do what they are designed to do.
I’m not promoting Delrin as a replacement for exotic timbers here. I like working with wood very much. Nothing is more pleasing to the eye or hands. But I do think there is a useful place for polymers in the flute world.
Clear Delrin? I do not think so. The natural stuff is a fairly opaque off-white color. Polycarbonate, ABS or Acrylic might be better choices for transparent/translucent flutes. But you can get Delrin is all sorts of colors. The colors are introduced during the manufacturing process and it becomes part of the molded or extruded piece. But I’d guess you already knew that.
Funny thing Jon I’ve been thinking of asking you to do a plastic head for my Monzani.
Black would look too weird on boxwood though
What about a fake glass (acrylic?) Laurent, Jon?
Surely your the man…
If one must hunt ‘Naugas’ to procure NaugahydeTM for pipes, what does one hunt to procure artificial ivory? Delrhino Whales as opposed to the more normal Narwhals?
Who knows, maybe torrefied cocus or blackwood is the answer.
