Question for the flute makers using Delrin (in the US only). Where do you purchase yours?
Thanks!
Casey
I’m not a flute maker but…
Delrin is the trade name and you might find more options looking for the generic polymer.
Some listed in this whistle thread
https://forums.chiffandfipple.com/t/delrin-source/56900/1
I didn’t see this one in the other thread: http://www.interstateplastics.com/search.php?searchtext=delrin%20acetal
I buy from McMaster Carr. They also offer a generic acetal polymer but I get the Delrin.
Hmmm, I’ll bet there’d be a lot of interest in a delrin folk flute… 
I agree, McMaster Carr has reasonable prices on the delrin. I get the rod that is pre-drilled, it cost more but is faster, and makes less waste. They have a size that works well for the head joint and barrel then the smaller size for the lower section and foot.
Thanks for the suggestions. I’ll probably go to M. Carr since I order from them already. Am going to try this stuff finally to see if I like it. And see how my tools stand up to it.
Would like to stay with wood but I’m having a bit of a time with flaws. Sometimes I have to turn 10 head joints to get 5 that pass inspection. This is eating into my bottom line.
Plus there is the occasional flute heading to places where the humidity is 5% at times, like Colorado. I worry about the wood ones. Though more often I am using an interesting varnish where I pour some linseed oil onto folded paper towels, then add some mixed up 5 minute epoxy and sort of french polish with the latter on the lathe with the wood spinning. Also seal up the bore and the end grain with this. It entombs what moisture is in the wood to some degree, and makes it less sensitive to humidity.
Casey
I would be for one.
Well despite my numerous posts bashing the use of Delrin for flutes as opposed to wood, I’ve decided to humbly take the plunge and test this material, risking some culinary experiences with Corvids.
Enough Delrin for 6 flutes is on its way.
Its easy to get, in useful sizes and shapes (especially the 3/4" tubing). Only question now is if I can stand using the stuff and if it produces an instrument that plays as well as blackwood. If so, I’ll offer it in all of my flute models including the Folk Flute and low flutes (and these will still be available in wood as well). I’ll know in about a month.
Casey
I can attest from personal experience that they don’t taste so bad if you eat enough of 'em.
It’s probably best not to look at Delrin as a direct substitute for any of the woods. I’m guessing that after the first few flutes you will come up with Delrin-specific designs that make the best use of the properties and tonal qualities of the material.
Hope the delrin works out - I’m looking for a made-in-America low B-flat.
I guess only time (and trial and error) will tell. Can’t see why it shouldn’t work for you, i have heard great sounding (to my old damaged ears anyhow) Delrin flutes from Desi Seery, D.Copley and Rob Forbes.
Feeling the peer pressure here and frankly, I don’t mind it. I hope to make it work well.
One of my objections to plastic vs. wood is that it doesn’t change shape over time. I think what is involved in the seasoning of a flute, and why these seem to play better a year after manufacture (assuming they are well cared for) – i.e., played-in - is some very minor but measurable deformation in the cross section of the bore from circular to slightly ovoid, with the ovoid being preferred. One sees this phenomenon much quicker with boxwood.
I looked into the properties of Delrin and its a thermosetting plastic, meaning at above a certain temp (I think they said 275F) it becomes mutable. Thus it may be that a little bit of heat treating to impart a similar ovoid may be all that is necessary.
More later maybe. Nap time. No sleep last night as I lay awake thinking about todays house appraisal (for refi) that went very well I think, some possible pending major changes to the way I sell my flutes and what flutes I sell, and wanting to play my Soprano Sax at 1 AM after listening to some Sidney Bechet. I think I got all of 2 hours. Have to be awake in an hour to go get my kid from the Bainbridge ferry. I can barely keep my eyes open at the moment.
Hasta…
Casey
I work the delrin with carbide cutters, if you use a wood lathe they have chisels fitted with indexable carbide tips. Like Dave Copley mentioned to me a couple of years ago, you need a strong vacuum to suck up the strings and fumes. Also remember delrin is highly flammable an considered as hazardous waste. enjoy!
I’ll be sure to read the MSDS on this. The previous owner of my Myford lathes used to turn delrin flute parts on these. Who knows if this was what eventually gave him colon and liver cancer, killing him. The fire hazard is something I didn’t know about - but how does it compare with blackwood? Is it much more flammable?
Good thing I am not making these out of celluloid. Brian Steeger once told me a story of taking a celluloid ornament off an old crappy Highland bagpipe, and setting it a fire to see what would happen. It went up in one little explosive poof! If Delrin shavings are like this, then that is a deal killer. So is the concept of them becoming hazardous waste. My workshop shares my well house.
Casey
Quite frankly Casey, if others can do it, you can too-your designs should hold up over the various materials, and at least, a Bb Delrin should be a good start, or finsh even. Though I love your Bb Boxwood low flutes, and wooden flutes in general, there is no reason it shouldn’t evolve to a similar great flute in the end product in plastic. I do know about nap time, and will bow to it’s time & necessity in the process. Have a good one, and may your plastic be as sucessful as your wooden flutes. There is room for both in the musical realm. Would love to try one of your flutes in Delrin. Good luck with the process, and fare thee well!
Well the first data sheet mentions formaldehyde. That might be the deal killer right there. Don’t want to subject myself to formaldehyde ever!
Casey
Delrin is produced from oil, it burns fast and hot. They use it for emergency rescue to get a quick hot fire. I think it is a none cancer causing material, mainly when it is heated up to the melting point. This can happen if you drill it to fast. As long as you wear a heap filter mask, it shouldn’t be a problem. But due to your compromised immune system, you might want to avoid the stuff.
Well I am thinking now that Delrin is not going to be what I use, period. Especially after a long conversation this afternoon with a dear friend and fellow flute maker Rod Cameron of Baroque Flute fame (he also makes a great copy of Chris Norman’s Rudall flute). A material used by the ornamental turners, cast acrylic resin, is one worth pursuing, as well as an old standby plastic that I have made flutes from before: GPS Agencies’ cast polyester resin sold as “Alternative Ivory”.
Delrin eats tooling. The other two machine much better than Delrin, have a wide variety of colors available (there is also a polyester horn, and polyester tortoise shell which both look lovely) and neither are as toxic. I will have to retool to use these but I don’t see any problem. Thus I can predict that my flutes will be available in these come September or October, at the same prices as wood. Folk Flutes and other models.
I’ve been exhausted the last few days after last week’s tuning blitz, as well as getting the house ready for an appraisal which happened yesterday (we are refinancing to avoid a balloon payment that pops in 3.5 years) so I’ve avoided turning in the hot, muggy East Coast-like weather that we have had lately.
But tonight I was really curious about the cast acrylic. I have some, and turned a head joint. This is some optically clear stuff used for lens manufacturing. It was really fun to watch the gun drill drilling through the material - I had never seen that before except where it goes in. I wanted to see how it matched blackwood in density so I turned a headjoint from it to the same dimension as the ones in the current flute batches. Almost identical in weight to blackwood and heavier than boxwood. I have an old GPS resin headjoint and this weighs the same as well. Turning this will require a slightly different approach. The bore was difficult to generate without some conchoidal fracturing leaving a rough bore. The outside will require some different tooling. My automatic profiling lathe (which has been in mothballs since I haven’t needed it since the flute bubble of 2008 - my queue has been declining since then) will be perfect for this. The material will take a high polish right off the tool if the feed rate is slow enough. Trying to scraper turn this resulted in immediately dulled scrapers. Wrinkles to work out, no problemo.
I will try to generate a flute from this clear acrylic soon. I’ve always wanted to make a Claude Laurent inspired glass flute (this is also in the cards thanks to a local glass worker here who specializes in optics like space telescope lenses - we may actually get going on this this winter) and this will come close, and probably work better due to the similar density to blackwood. I am intrigued by the idea of making a flute out of a resin that is the same shade as an old Coca Cola bottle, as well as one in an obsidian-like glass. The GPS material flows a bit after manufacturing and I can “age” an ovality to the bore that I need (or simply machine that in). All very exciting and looks like the green light for this.
Casey
Ah me dear an’ darlin’ delrin. Delrin doesn´t like flutemakers…much.
Fortunately, it´s very happy once it´s actually in flute form.
It doesn´t eat the carbide inserts I use for turning it…and the O1 steel I use for reamers seems to do ok but I 'd like to make up reamers for it out of the very tough D2 steel Robert Bigio says he uses. I have some here but I´d need a more robust milling setup before going at milling that D2.
The finishing work on delrin is very time consuming though – especially the insides of toneholes and embouchure holes with their associated undercuts. It´s definitely not a way to make flutes quicker, to say the least.
I´m currently working up a headjoint in delrin for Boehm flutes and your bit about making a flute from the transparent acrylic reminded me of this man´s flutes – he has some with transparent headjoints and bodies:
http://www.mckennaflutes.com/index.htm
That material might be the acrylic he mentions on his Materials page – some other interesting headjoint designs on there too:
“…Materials I have used in my research are nickel, brass, titanium, lead, wood, phenolic, paper, paper mache, bamboo, rhubarb, PVC, ABS, graphite, acrylic, terra cotta, porcelain, lead crystal, quartz and more…”
Or it could be transparent rhubarb…
Garry