Recently received great-grandfather’s flute, it’s a rudall carte & co wooden one, not sure what type of wood and I’m not sure if the head is lined with nickel or silver. The serial number is 6388 and the address is 23 Berners st, Oxford st. We are not sure when it was made, but after some research guessing late 19th century, maybe early 20th?( really don’t know…)I know how to play the modern flute but on this one (when it is tuned to the piano) it seems that you have to press what I know as the G# key for every note under A in any octave. Oh yeah-the original cases looks as though as it should have another part in it, maybe another head joint? So does anyone know anything else about this flute and how to play it? I am just stuck on the fingering for the high and low notes 
Thank you !!
Greetings Snowball:) and welcome to the forums. 
It sounds to me like one of the many-keyed old systems with an open G# key. We’d need photos to tell you more. Can you put some up? Or link to some? If you’re not sure how to post photos on the forum, let us know and some helpful horseman or other 
(one of our regulars) will be sure to pop along to give you a hand with it.
Hi there,
Lol - are you offering if you don’t know how to play on it 
If in doubt, it’s rosewood until proven otherwise
You’d be very fortunate to have a headjoint lined with silver; certainly mine looks like silver however I’ve always doubted this as the sound is not bright as is to be expected with silver flutes.
Coming from a Boehm perspective, try and locate the two inset keys on the lower half of the flute between the toneholes. These operate the usual trill functions. The Bb position of the thumb lever is usually reversed compared to your Boehm experience; if you do not have two separate tone holes, which require closure of both by the same single thumb, then yours is a design which predates the 1867 patent. I prefer the 1867 patent and the open G sharp key which Ben mentions is a distinct advantage mechanically, over some of the earlier Rudall Carte Boehm efforts which are quite unexciting. You do not need to depress this all the time; the C, B and A notes and their respective semi-tones do not require it.
The lower octave C and C sharp are also accessed slightly differently than the middle octave C and C sharp, using the reverse thumb holes which stabilises the flute in the open C sharp position (unlike the heavier Boehm alto flute family …where the open C sharp is open danger of dropping the whole assembly). What these strange complicated venting holes and fingerings achieve, is a purer clearer note, than what you can ever hope for from a a sterile conventional Boehm flute. It is more complicated, but the tonal purity is worthwhile imho…even if it requires relearning the whole set of fingerings fluently (I’m still not there yet) which might mess up your Boehm fingerings for a while until you can adjust between the two.
You may also find a little unformed arm lever which can also operate the pure Fsharp key, instead of having a shaded Fsharp using traditional Boehm fingering. If your flute doesn’t have these functions, then it is not a very nice Rudall Carte Boehm effort! There we go…10,000 word start since there are no images.
Happy snowballing, and welcome to the Rudall Carte Boehm club
Thank you for all the information! Didn’t expect a reply so quickly!
The b flat thumb lever isn’t reversed and there isn’t another arm lever to operate the pure f# key-not completely sure what this means though!
I will try to upload some pics but not quite sure how to do it…I think I will stick with my normal flute for the moment-don’t think I want to mess up the fingering I already know or my teacher might kill me lol 
Thank you again!
Hi Snowball
Having consulted Robert Bigio’s book on Rudall Carte it seems that your flute ( No. 6388) was probably the first to be listed/made for 1923. As to the actual model of your flute I would need a photograph to be accurate.
The original records for Rudall Carte are held at the Horniman Museum in South London. It is possible that they would list your flute, its’ maker, cost and first purchaser, though this would involve a visit and a trawl through the books. It might be possible to contact Robert Bigio direct as he holds copies of some of the records and may, for a charity donation, search through his archive.
Good luck with your investigations and I will help further if I can.
Cheers
Martin
Martin
Thanks for the new info. My grandmother definitely remembers it from the 30’s, so 1923 sounds like the right sort of date. I have been searching through the internet but haven’t found a flute much like this one-maybe books are better for this type of thing! Do you know how to attach a photo to this??
Thanks again!
Snowball … Upload your photo(s) to a photo sharing site, then post the links here.
Does this help?
The photos are a great help.
I believe your flute is a standard Boehm flute with an open G sharp key, this was an option on many of the post Boehm flute systems. In fact I think this was the system that Boehm introduced initially before it was changed to a closed key by Rudall Carte.
I am sure with a little searching on the net there will be a fingering chart somewhere.
Try the links in “Fingering Charts” at the top of the flute forum page.
The flute looks fine.
Good Luck.
Martin
Martin
It does need a bit of a clean though and I don’t think the pads have ever been replaced…
Thank you so much for the help and I will enjoy attempting to play it.
Yay!
You did it!
That does look like a straightforward Boehm replica with an open G key and all the shaded note issues of the Fsharp/Csharp (didn’t mean lowest C; meant the middle stave C and above ledger line C btw). Not that it’s a bad flute - it’s still mmmmuch better than most Boehm flutes and it’s still a very nice rosewood flute though
The fingering is identical to the Boehm without the open G system (leave open for notes A/B/C and their accidentals). You can get the split E with the left hand fingering and the lowest trill key for ease and clarity too.
Good luck playing. Great-granddad will be happy
Right then. I’d better stop complaining about not being able to play it if it’s almost the same as the boehm flute.
Thank you all for the help!
Not mentioned the headjoint and embouchure yet.
You’ll be used to a headjoint with a lip plate and chimney, and perhaps a rectangular embouchure. Your Rudall Carte design is an oval embouchure with a thick wall head joint (lined). The blowing technique is different from Boehm flute playing.
If you’re tuning by piano (A=440Hz or 442Hz), in the 1920’s, the pitch of your flute is most likely A=440Hz. If it isn’t, you can try extending the headjoint until you find the right pitch.
Tonehole has brought up a very relevant point for consideration about the cut of the embouchure and the chimney height. Your modern Boehm flute has an embouchure refined and optimized for the “French School” of blowing. . .a generally very relaxed lip form a la Marcel Moyse. I would imagine the cut of a Rudall Carte flute, even of a late date of manufacture, will be closer to the ‘Hard, Dark’ sound sort of embouchure, closer to Nicholson and Rockstro’s ideal.
You might peruse Terry McGee’s pages on classic British tone production. Not to worry, learning to get the most out of the wooden flute will probably only improve your tone with regard to your your modern flute. Never forget Sir James Galway got his start on old wooden Band flutes playing for Orange Flute Bands, before he got his first modern flute. (which he described as an almost unplayable POS.) 
Bob
Hi Snowball and welcome to C&F!
Coming late to this (sorry! been working solid!) - I agree with much of the above, though there are a few issues not covered or points I’d take mild issue with…
First, the flute is made of cocuswood, not “rosewood” - antique dealers without specialist flute knowledge often call it that (and it is arguably classed as a rosewood by cabinet-makers - but is botanically distinct), but not serious flute folk. RC&Co. only used cocus and (for a period) grenadilla/African Blackwood - which this clearly is not.
(cf: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosewood & http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cocuswood)
The open G# design was Bohm’s original and preferred mechanism. That it did not become the dominant modern system does not detract from its advantages over the closed G# version, not least the better, correctly vented 3rd 8ve E with no need for extra mechanism such as the “split E”. Some of the other 3rd 8ve fingerings are also preferable to the closed G# version. It does take some effort to learn to switch from one fingering system to the other, but it is a far smaller shift to make than, say, from Simple System to Bohm of either type. Nor should doing so be deleterious to your fluency, nor is using an open G# flute in any way disadvantageous to a professional flute career, save in the issue of choice of readily available non-bespoke modern-made instruments. Some players can and have done the work to be fluent in either system, e.g. Elizabeth Walker, seen here playing an open G# instrument (see also the sleeve notes here), also plays standard closed G# Bohm flutes besides being a Baroque flute specialist (she has other YT clips)…
As to a fingering chart, there is a complete one including trill fingerings in the old Practical Tutor for FLUTE by Otto Langey, published by Boosey & Hawkes - with patience you can acquire second hand copies cheaply enough on eBay or Amazon (none reasonably priced at present, seemingly) - it was still a standard Grade 5 or so book in the 1970s, though it is no longer in print SFAIK (I believe an expensive bespoke facsimile printing is offered by B&H). Your teacher probably has it! If you have no joy, let me know and I’ll scan the relevant pages for you.
You should read up on background to all this on Rick Wilson’s invaluable website. There’s useful/interesting info (and archive sound clips) elsewhere too, e.g. Stuart Scott’s and Robert Bigio’s websites.
Now, an important issue has only been alluded to above - the design pitch of your flute. You may already have some idea from your attempts to play it whether or not it is a “Concert Pitch” instrument. If you can play it in tune with a properly tuned piano with the head pulled out no more than c 3mm, then all is well. However, if to get a 440Hz A (referenced to a piano or an electronic tuner) you have to pull the head way out, to the point where it is just still stable on the tenon or beyond that, then you have problems - it will be an old British High Pitch instrument (info on this on Rick Wilson’s pages and also Terry McGee’s). You can test against a tuner, but we can give a definitive diagnosis if you take and tell us the following measurements (in mm) from the fully assembled flute, all joints pushed right home: the overall length and the “sounding length” (from centre of embouchure hole to level with the foot end).
For a Concert Pitch instrument (Bohm cylinder) you need a sounding length of 600mm +/- no more than 3mm. If the SL is c 580mm, you have a High Pitch flute. Of course, you can also do a quick by eye assessment by comparing the RC with your modern flute. Assemble both, then lay them alongside each other with the embouchure holes lined up. If they are near-enough the same Sounding Length (ignore the part above the embouchure towards the crown - not relevant), you’re good for CP, but if the RC is significantly shorter then it must be HP. (If they’re different in SL, you can also line up other chosen points to observe the differences in the scaling.)
If the previous contributor who gave a probable date is correct and your flute was made after 1920, there is a fair chance it will be built for CP, but no certainty as they went on making HP flutes in Britain well after the adoption of the A=440Hz international pitch standard just after WW1.
If your flute is indeed HP, then although a massive tuning slide extension will probably make it possible to tune the A (or any other chosen note) to modern CP, you will find that the rest of the scale is distorted within each octave - notes above the chosen reference note will be relatively flat and those below it will be relatively sharp, and the discrepancies will be worse as you go up each octave. The interval at the (break" between octaves (C or C#-D) will also be noticeably too wide. Whilst it may be possible by dint of embouchure gymnastics to lip individual notes in, it is not feasible to play in an ensemble with satisfactory intonation on a HP flute tuned down to CP. Howsoever lovely-sounding the flute and howsoever good its condition, an HP flute is worth much less than a CP equivalent because of its poor practical utility in a modern context - you can enjoy it alone at home, but that’s about it.
Let us know those dimensions…
(edited for typos)
Oh, BTW, can you add a photo of the (open) case (and any inclusions like grease pot, cleaning rod etc.) - I see an unanswered Q! There’s a good chance the flute originally came with two heads, maybe a longer and a shorter one to try to accomodate the different pitch standards (see Rick Wilson’s page linked above!) or maybe an extra “thinned” head at the same pitch/length…
Another point I missed - normally the head lining in RC flutes of this era was in the same metal as the mechanism, so unless the head is not the one originally made for the flute, the lining will be sterling silver (it not being so would be about the only way to determine if it was a substitute!).
A thought on the pads - any chance of a close-up shot under a key or two? Are they modern “skin” pads like on your other flute, or do they look as though they might be surfaced with very, very fine leather? If the latter and they are not damaged (how well are they sealing? can you get low D/C#/C strongly without excessive pressure on the keys?), if you decide to have the flute overhauled (probably necessary) it would be best (if feasible) to have them cleaned and kept rather than replaced with modern pads.
Probably the best people (in GB) to approach for an overhaul would be Arthur Haswell’s in Hexham, who specialise in RC flutes, but if just a clean-up of the wood and silver are needed, you should not be afraid to attempt that yourself.
Right…
The full length of the flute is 657mm, and unfortunately the sounding length is 578mm.
Yes, we did wonder a bit about the case! Thanks for picking up on that! Here’s a picture…
I’m not too sure about what the pads are made of, and I think they are leaking as I have to apply a LOT of pressure to get low c…
^sorry about quality^
I’m not too sure about the cleaning up of the wood and silver, I tend to break everything I touch!
Thank you for your very knowledgeable contributions!
Right. That clears up a few things. It is most definitely HP (A=456 or thereabouts), and that affects how much, if any, money/effort it is worth spending on it. Even fully overhauled its resale value is probably under £500 (a good, ready to play CP example is worth c £1500-2000 as you can see on Haswell’s website). If it was CP I’d not hesitate in advising paying a good specialist tech to overhaul it. Being HP, you’d likely have to spend a significant proportion of its value (probably between £200-300) to have it fully cleaned and overhauled. My advice would be to do it yourself. Detailed advice is available!
The extra space in the case is for a companion piccolo, not another head - that is pretty clear. The lack of wear/pressure marks there suggest it has been absent for a long time, though it is unlikely the combi case would have been supplied without there being a piccolo to go with the flute. You have the cleaning rod (if there is a crack in the middle of the central silver sleeve, it will have an integral screw-driver - can’t see for sure on the picture) - nice - but not the grease pot.
The pads do look to be the original leather ones, not skin. If none are torn/cut or badly scuffed, if you do set about getting it fettled up or do it yourself, careful cleaning of them and then ironing will likely restore them to a good seal, though the tone-hole edges will also need cleaning and checking for any damage.
I’m not too sure about the cleaning up of the wood and silver, I tend to break everything I touch!
I know the feeling. Everything I touch tends to depreciate 
Nothing would persuade me to try and tidy up a flute like this by myself!@
I hear what Jemtheflute is saying about Haswell’s excellent reputation for repairing Rudall Carte flutes, however without a trust fund, I wouldn’t feel inclined to send a high pitch flute to them for repair, without expecting a repair/service bill in the region of several hundred pounds. (There are other Rudall Carte specialist repairers btw)
I would imagine the cut of a Rudall Carte flute, even of a late date of manufacture, will be closer to the ‘Hard, Dark’ sound sort of embouchure, closer to Nicholson and Rockstro’s ideal.
Hi Seanduine,
That’s a great description. When Rudall Carte were taken over by Boosey & Hawkes, I wonder if the latter flutes still continued to share the same designs as the Nicholson/Rockstro…or perhaps patents did not allow this?
What I said, pretty much? Not worth paying any pro technician to do it unless you’re feeling both rich and very enthusiastic - and a non-specialist would likely balls it up.
??? Pretty much not relevant. In any case, RC&Co. flutes were pretty much the work of individual craftsmen (to design specs, of course), not standardised in a modern factory sense. Embouchure cuts were cut by hand/eye after basic drilling and are variable.
BTW, the previous post suggesting there is a fundamental difference between a hole bored in a thick-walled wooden tube and one drilled in a structure created by soldering a riser to a thin walled metal tube and then soldering a lip-plate to that furthers a common misunderstanding. The alternative materials and construction achieve the same thing and there is no necessary practical difference in the end result. The differences are in the choice of embouchure cut - shape, undercut, actual chimney depth (can be as deep or as shallow as you choose in either material/construction method). You can have a classic Rudall ellipse or a Bohm “TV screen” cut etc. etc. in either type of head. It is the embouchure cut which will make the difference to the tone-character and blowing requirements, not the material, though the overall greater weight and resistance of an un-thinned wooden head may make some difference. A metal flute’s lip-plate in itself has no virtue - it is there to substitute for the outer surface of a wooden tube as a place to support the lip/rest the flute against the face correctly!
For sure, an antique RC head will have a different playing character than a modern one, but that’s not down to the material to any great extent.