hello! I’m sorry to arrive with questions - but I’m guessing that the obvious way to find internet forums is when you’re looking for something, so I hope you’ll excuse me.
Does anyone know of a good source of info on the history of Hawkes and Son? All I know is that they merged with Boosey to form Boosey and Hawkes in 1930. I’m asking because I have acquired what I think is probably a fife, though it may be a piccolo, made by Hawkes and Son, Denham Street. I have a feeling they had several addresses but have no idea of dates.
I didn’t even set out to own it; I was looking for non-Dixon polymer flutes; it’s the curse of ebay!
Dating these things can be tricky. Sometimes instruments were made by other manufacturers and then stamped with the well known brands. I just learned about this with saxophones that were stamped by Selmer but were made for them in the US by Buescher and Conn. Similar things were happening with flutes. I suspect that some American brands were actually made in London, and labeled here. The modern day example of this are Scottish Bagpipes supposedly manufactured in Scotland but are really made in Pakistan.
Globalization and outsourcing are really 19th century concepts!
Note the wide German Silver Band over the socket on the head. The socket is lined (French style) and the wood of course cracked. So a previous owner, turned down the shoulder and fitted the ring.
I played this flute regularly a year ago, while I was in my small hole/Baroque phase. I really like the elegant key-work.
Two things interest me:
1 My flute and Jordan’s are potentially only a year or two apart, Jordans has small hole mine are large, when did that change or did they offer both types at some point?
2 The keywork looks a bit like mine, look at the g# touch on Jordans, also the foot joints on mine. My photo is very bad (cheap camera+ no aptitude for photography) The touch pieces are similar. I hadn’t set eys on a Hawkes flute at the time when I designed my keywork.
ha, it arrived and it is (a) tiny (b) old and in need of TLC and (c) impossible for me to get a note out of for the D fingering, which may be my fault, but I’m usually pretty good at getting notes out of things. It’s the playing them in a sensible order I have problems with oh, and (d) it appears to be in E, if we’re using folk denomination. Odd. That’s what you get for buying a pig inna poke!
I now have eighty bazillion questions which I think I need to start a new thread about. I’m sorry…
Nah, stick to this one - we know where you are! Post some photos and ask away. Oh, and the pitch thing - assuming it isn’t leaking so much you can’t test properly, it is very likely in Eb and High Pitch to boot. Is it this one? If so, looks cute, nice box, decent price, quite a bit to do to make it playable, leave alone restore fully (probably not worth it - looks like it needs a new crown, which unless you have a tame wood turner won’t be easy…).
a tone sharp?! ow.
or it’s supposed to be e flat and is a semitone sharp?
I don’t think it’s leaking much; though it does have a horrible crack in the head joint, it’s pretty much sealed by the metal core (I knew the crack was going to be there). The notes I can get out of it are consistently a tone above what I’d expect for the fingering (in D for whistle/folk flute or C for Boehm). Having said that, I’m used to something either fully keyed or with none (unless you count the low keys on a tenor recorder) and haven’t yet worked out what the keys I have on here actually do!
As I said, I didn’t actually intend to buy this, I was looking for a simple flute/fife in low or high D and ended up taking a punt on something very cheap and potentially interesting; I’m a metalworker and thought that it would be interesting to see if I could transfer any of my skills in making/mending small, annoying and fiddly things to this.
I will post some pictures, if that’s ok - it’s a nice object, even if it’s not working properly at the moment (though as I said, that might be me. Not convinced about that, though) - it still fits together beautifully and all the keys are in working order, with one loose pad. The decirative top bit is missing, but the plug is still there and functional.
The missing “decorative end” is the crown or cap. The barrel (short separate bit of the head) crack visible on the eBay listing ought not to be too bad to fix, and for the rest, as you say, your skill-set should set you up. Disassembly, cleaning, repadding… As I said, for that money, well worth a punt even if it doesn’t get you quite what you were after.
BTW, the keys give the semitones missing from the main diatonic scale of the open finger-holes. It would be treated as a transposing instrument “in Db” in orchestral terms. That is, a written D (6-finger note) will sound an Eb, at whatever pitch standard it is built to. In “D flute” terms (orchestral “C”), the keys are, working from the bottom, for Eb (R little finger), F natural (“long” and “short”, duplicate keys), G# (L little finger), Bb (L thumb) and C natural (R forefinger).
thanks for the key info, it makes sense. I actually work in a Design and Technology classroom, and I’m sure it has a lathe, not that I know how to use it! But I know a man who does- but that’s the least of my worries, it’s purely cosmetic.
I am guessing a padded clamp and appropriate glue is the best way to sort the crack? and would that be pva or epoxy? (I’m sorry to treat you so rudely with so many questions, please ignore me or be rude if you feel the urge). The joints are still tight, which is a great relief; the most obvious issue is some of the pads, which I think are original and a bit knackered; I haven’t taken it apart yet but the one that fell out looks like leather, it’s so old and squashed, though I’m betting it’s cork. The white metal is nasty, but I’m a metals snob and it’s something I’ll just have to deal with
i think it’s do-able. What I’m aiming for is something whistle-like but transverse that I can play for my own amusement (and the probable immense irritation of my kids.)
Nothing wrong with German Silver! Polishes up a treat!
You’ll need to replace the pads, for sure - we can guide you on that. As for the crack(s?), no, what you wrote is NOT the way to do it! It has cracked because the wood shrank over the brass liner-tube of the barrel that forms part of the tuning slide. It probably won’t clamp shut, and if it did, glue wouldn’t hold it for long, and even if you pinned or stitched it, it would likely crack again elsewhere. There are quite a few old threads here about head and barrel cracks and how to treat them if you use the search tool (save us writing it all out again!). If you look me up on FaceBook, I have some photo-story albums of flute repairs I’ve done which show the techniques involved.
Be careful of those “tight joints”! Oh, and the crown wasn’t purely cosmetic, especially if the stopper cork has a screw adjuster shank which would have screwed through the drown - can I see a finial poking out of tube? (Piccies of similar on my FB too) But you’re right that it isn’t necessary to replace the crown for playability.
First, huge and enormous thanks to Jem for his patience and all-round helpfulness, it’s been hugely appreciated and very useful.
With the crack in the barrel plugged with blutack (inelegant as it gets, but also very temporary) and the second key (which has an iffy pad) removed and the hole blocked, this has got a tone which far surpasses my £20 expectations; it’s kind of pure and sweet and woody. Very very playable. It’s in a slightly unsociable key, but as I play mostly on my own, Eb isn’t a major problem.
Jem’s completely right about the nasty white metal (I can’t bring myself to call it anything with “silver” in the name…); it does polish up a treat. The plug (is that what it’s called?!) is moveable. With pliers, ahem.
I need to find out the best adhesive for pads, and whether the wood needs polishing/feeding etc, and what the best thing for cleaning the dull patches under the keys. But I’ve pretty much reached the limitss of what I want to do with cleaning and repadding (the pads, by the way, are lovely, and the screws are great, though I appreciate that not everyone is going to share that enthusiasm) It’s so much nicer a sound than I was expecting that I’m not happy to experiment with repairing the barrel, I would be so sad if I spoiled it. I’m going to wait until I can afford to pay someone who knows what they are doing to fix it properly, and stick with the blutack until then.
ohhh.
Two more things:
playing it for more than a few minutes gives me face-ache. But this shall pass.
It smells funny. Inside the bore. Old and musty…
Nice Tromlitz lever on your Fnat keys! Only thing missing is the RH touch for the Bb. 
oh, and (d) it appears to be in E, if we’re using folk denomination. Odd. That’s what you get for buying a pig inna poke!