I’ve been playing the fiddle with some level of seriousness for about 18 months now. I try to hold the bow in the way that Willie Kelly showed me, you know, tip of thumb stuck in under bow at end of frog in order to keep the thumb arched nicely outward / downward. That in itself is not easy and gives a certain amount of discomfort after playing for a while, but my real problem is with the nuckle of the little finger, which is hurting like hell. The tip of my little finger is leaning on the end of the bow.
I try to play the pipes afterwards and my right hand still hurts. Any ideas.
There are as many ways to hold the bow as there are fiddlers. Find one that suits you. Try just lightly holding the bow between thumb and forefinger. In any case, the trick to fiddle is soft hands, loose and fluid. Just like with the pipe chanter, you don’t want a death grip that would restrict bloodflow or cause cramping.
Try keeping the little finger off the bow except when you need it to balance the weight of the bow - probably never, but possibly when playing near the frog on the G string. You certainly shouldn’t be pressing with it.
And although the bent thumb is recommended classical technique, if all you want to play is trad, you can safely ditch that too. Stay loose, stay comfortable. Don’t be frightened of holding the bow higher up the stick, either, if it suits you.
They’re the only instruments though.
I’ve been at the pipes a while, not worried about that, but I’ve made good progress on the fiddle in a short while, and I’d hate to lose the momentum by continuing to injure myself to the point of visiting a physician, only to be told to give up the activity for a while - would prefer to change the grip.
By the way, I do also get the normal, aches in shoulders and neck etc., typical of practicing any activity that one is not used to.
Stevie,
I see you’re located in Montreal. I’ll be going there to play a concert on Sunday 14th of May at the Chateau Ramezay in downtown Montreal (I think). Any chance you’ll be there?
It does sound like you’re trying to hold on to the bow too tightly. I agree with StevieJ’s suggestions.
The thumb should only provide a little counter pressure at the tip of the bow. The rest of the time it’s job is to be the balance point, and there shouldn’t be any strain or upward pressure.
If you have the chance you might want to try out a lighter bow to see if that helps.
Also, lots of fine musicians hold the bow a little higher up the bow (Sean Smyth of Lunasa is the first that comes to mind), and are fantastic players…
Keep at it though, the violin is not an easy instrument to learn. I think that’s why I like it so much…
One of Alan Jones’ (no relation!) piping concerts I expect? I wasn’t planning to go.
I just got out the fiddle (something I rarely do these days) to check what I told you earlier.
My middle, ring and little fingers tend to fall into place on the bow as I get nearer to the frog (on all strings), and tend to lift off as I get nearer the tip. Now this is not classical technique, I’m sure (it’s over 30 years since I had my last lesson) but it indicates something about the balance issue. My thumb is almost straight, slightly bent but not as much as a teacher would tell you to do.
You can certainly play with the thumb and forefinger only if you stay in the top half of the bow. Which is what many Cape Breton players do. But I can’t see how you could get a decent tone in the bottom third of the bow without using other fingers or without exerting undue pressure with your forefinger. And I do like good tone even if it’s not considered essential for trad.
Having said that, as it says chez Brother Steve, “Formulate a rule about traditional music, no matter how carefully, and sooner or later you’ll encounter a fine player who flouts it magnificently…”
Classical bow technique calls for the hair to be angled on the string, i.e. with the wood farther away from you than the hair. That’s another thing you can safely scrap for trad. Get more bite with the full face of the hair, if that’s what you like.
Thank-you Steve, I’ll re-read your post a few times to try to extract the wisdom from it.
I think the act of arching the thumb is intended to stave off repetitive strain injury, well, according to my fiddle-teacher anyway.
The thing to remember is to be comfotable. Holding it in the classical way is all fine and good, but is it really necessary? I find the classical way cumbersome and as such, I don’t use it. Look at the way Martin Hayes holds his bow, he looks very comfortable holding it up a bit from the frog.
Check out the fiddlers in the circle at a session or festival, and I bet you’ll see a great variety of bow holds. I learned the classical one, but tend these days to grip farther up the stick, especially for American shuffle-based old-time tunes. (I read an interesting speculation somewhre–maybe on Fiddle-l–that this grip was actually more effective for old-time music than the classical one and should be seen as a technique in itself, not as home-grown sloppiness.)
If you can keep your hand relaxed, then I think you’ll find that the power comes from the weight of the bow and the drive of the wrist, and a tight grip will work against that.
I’ve had it pointed out that occasionally I hold the bow only with the index finger and thumb! I don’t think you can use less digits than that. I’ve never dropped the bow because of this, though occasionally I have got the tip mixed up with the strings and had an embarrassing “crunchle” event.
I started with classical hold (taught to me as a child) and it seems over recent years my hold had become more and more relaxed. Pretty soon I’ll stop holding the bow at all and just watch it doing its thing, while I use my right arm for holding pints.
As StevieJ and others have pointed out, relaxation is the key. When I’m practising a new or tricky tune, that’s when I tense up (especially mt left arm, my right never seems to suffer) with resultant aches soon building up.
