It is a pet peeve of mine and I have often aired it in places that caused people to be offended and discussions turn ugly. So I cut it loose here from any particular maker-person/player so nobody needs to take umbrage or start shouting. So behave.
If, and it doesn’t happen very often, I get the urge to buy a whistle I’d like to try it before buying. I want to know what I am getting myself in for. Occasionally however curiosity gets the better of me, be it because a whistle looks particularly nice or because people here rave about it and I’d like to know more. At that point I go to a maker’s website, look at the pictures, read the blurb and if there are any I listen to soundclips. Mind you, I have broadband since two weeks ago so I have done this pretty sparingly in the past but when I did I was pretty motivated and listening was the last step before ordering. However, each and every clip I have heard turned me off the whistle in question. Why? Well, unfortunately most clips I heard sounded like they were played by someone pulled out of a lower intermediate whistle class and rarely managed to put in any significant way across what the instrument in question was capable of.
Ofcourse I have heard the argument that has been made on the forums often that says ‘I don’t want a good player to play the clips, a good player can make anything sound good, I want a beginner to play it so I know what I will sound like’. That doesn’t work for me, I am fully aware I and anybody else can sound mediocre on any given instrument, buying a new instrument I want to be lured, I want to be amazed, I want to hear the whistle do something my current whistles can’t (no point in buying it otherwise is there?). In other words I want to hear an instrument shine in the hands of a capable player who pays attention to detail and tone colour. In other words I want to get as good an impression of an instrument a can be gleaned from a simple soundclip with regards to tuning, responsiveness and all these little things that are important.
Is it too much to ask. Well, in a lot of cases it seems to be.
I think makers putting up mediocre clips are not doing themselves any favours, from a marketing point of view. I have been repeatedly turned off a purchase and I doubt I am alone in this.
As a side issue I think (and will probably get the barbs up) that if a maker is not an excellent player or has access to excellent players who can provide him with informed feedback I’d be very wary to buy an instrument because in my experience (with whistles, uilleann pipes and flutes) a maker as described above fails to appreciate the finer points of playing the instrument and will thus not be able to make the instrument a good player can.
So that’s it. Fire away.
No particular maker or player was targeted or harmed in the writing of this post so don’t get your knickers in a twist when replying. I you get fired up by any of the content, think things through and post only after an hour.
Can’t hurt. The more good info the makers put out, the better for them. It might be tough for some of them to get a sufficiently good player in their locale, but I would bet that some of the better players (or claimed better players ) on this site would be glad to volunteer some tunes just to get to play with the whistles a while, or maybe for a discount or freebie. Did I just manage to offend anyone? If not, I will try again later.
Not if they have a good reputation in the general whistle community, and good customer service (answering my questions promptly and offering a return policy).
I know at least one excellent maker who isn’t a player at all. It doesn’t affect the happiness of their customers.
In my opinion a maker should put up the best sound samples they can possibly get–if the maker is only a mediocre player, find someone else to play the sound samples. I believe the example has been given before that if you’re selling pianos, you probably wouldn’t put up a sound sample of your five-year-old granddaughter playing “Twinkle, Twinkle Little Star.” I don’t know how much it helps or hurts actual sales, but I would think that if you go to the trouble to make the best whistles you can make, are proud of them and ready to ask people for money for them, you’d make every effort to put out the very best sound samples possible.
No other company would have a mediocre demo of its product. “Look at our computer. It can run really really fast, but here’s a demo of mediocre performance. Now, how many do you want with your first order?” (Great assumptive sales close, eh? Zig Zigler would be proud )
Sometimes I wonder if I just have a wrong idea/expectation of how flutes/whistles should sound and how ITM should be played…
I hear that you are new to broadband so haven’t listened to a lot of clips and the ones you’ve heard are mediocre (“each and every clip I have heard turned me off the whistle in question”). So to brighten your day I invite you to visit my site at www.reyburnlowwhistles.com/sound.html and listen to the Session D clip which is played by Pat O’Scannell. She is a 25 year veteran of the whistle and a virtuoso musician in general. Pat is the music director and co-artistic director of the Terra Nova Consort, ensemble in residence at the Oregon Shakespeare Festival and plays more instruments than anyone I’ve ever seen. A brilliant musician.
…as I said in the other thread, you cannot compare every instrument with every instrument… I personally would not care if my bodhran maker cannot play his bodhrans as long as he is skilled enough in wood works and knows how to treat the goat skin or uses the best source but if he can play as well you can get bodhrans like Christian Hedwitschaks, a master carpenter who designed his bodhrans to how he wanted them as a player and who custom makes to other professional players wishes. Going to him and saying what I want, he understands what I am talking about… if I then think of the quirks and problems that can appear with wind instruments and different players styles, I find it hard to think my flute maker can not play himself at least so that he can make sure the instrument can do what I need it for when playing professionally… I personally would go somewhere else as I find it odd again to become a flute maker/instrument maker and not being able to play the thing myself… I do not work as an accountant if I cannot calculate, secretary if cannot type…
sound samples I think can be provided differently, certainly hard for most makers to pay in instruments, discounts or the likes for receiving samples from players… i.e. we have no technical equipment at our home to do proper recordings from instruments, telephone helps and music samples online from other players hopefully compensate that lack of own samples. If you have one instrument and three different players, you will have three different sounds so sound samples are really subjective and can only tell about a particular instrument with a particular player, the next instrument or player sounds different so it is a tough one to judge from one sample.
If you have one instrument and three different players, you will have three different sounds so sound samples are really subjective and can only tell about a particular instrument with a particular player, the next instrument or player sounds different so it is a tough one to judge from one sample.
That’s a fair point and selecting an instrument from clips only is decidedly dodgy but sometimes if the urge is there it can help swing the decision and I think you can get at least an impression of a few features.
Pat is a very busy person and didn’t have the time to come to my studio to make a clip so she gave me a cd of a live performance at the Green Show at the Shakespeare Festival, which is where the clip came from (band and all).
It would be fabulous to have players of her quality available to make clips for me but such is not the case.
Ronaldo, I think the point here is that it’s better to have a poor recording of a good player than a great recording of a poor player. Hence, what you currently have up is, despite the band, better than what a lot of makers offer.
… I do not work as an accountant if I cannot calculate, secretary if cannot type…
But the secretary doesn’t make her typewriter (or computer), so not exactly a good comparison. The musician plays but does not need to be able to make their instrument.
I would agree however that it certainly helps to be able to play the instrument you are making.
I suppose if enough of my customers want to play a music sample and visualise themselves playing it, that’s a good enough reason to provide it, if I was in the instrument biz. But as an instrument customer, I’d never trust a sound sample on someone’s site: sound processing is simply too variable.
Perhaps an unclear choice of words. To me, “general whistle community” means any gathering(s) of whistle-playing musicians whose opinions and experience I value. So it could be people here on chiff, or a local session group that I go to, or amateur players I met randomly, or professional musicians. More likely a cross section involving all of the above. If the whistle in question has reasonably favourable reviews from people whose musical backgrounds are roughly familiar to me (ie not any random bloke off the street) and the maker is offering a reasonable return policy if it’s not to my liking, then it doesn’t really matter to me if there are clips available or not - what with player differences, recording setup differences, room size differences etc it’s unlikely that the whistle that I buy will sound exactly like the whistle in the clip anyway.
I was talking about the basic skill you normally need to do your job properly… I do not think you find a dislexic secretary who cannot type and most often you may find they can even repair their computers and certainly could repair their old fashioned typewriters to a certain degree 20 years ago… An instrument maker does not make his own drill press to make his instruments but he needs to know how to use and maintain it, they also do not make their tuning devices but when they use the tuner to tune the instruments they made theoretically with every instrument but certainly with wind instruments you have to have someone playing them and not only note by note up and down the scale… but we are heading off from the subject of the necessity of providing sound samples… and I realise I am hungry as well, so better go and make something now…
I don’t get suspicious if I see a lack of sound clips. I just figure that the maker probably has their hands full, between making whistles, handling order fulfillment… maybe a day job… Plus, a lot of these makers, I gather, have a waiting list. So, if MK has a year-long waiting list, what would you expect him to do? Put his spare time into producing sound clips, to attract more buyers, till he has a 2-year waiting list? I guess I can understand how the makers with a long waiting list might make sound clips a low priority.
But, yes, it DOES help me to buy a whistle if I can listen to a sound sample, sure. The sound clip helps me to overcome the uncertainty / hesitation.
Recommendations from others are probably more important to me than sound clips. A clip doesn’t give me a sense of volume, or playability…
) on this site would be glad to volunteer some tunes just to get to play with the whistles a while, or maybe for a discount or freebie. Did I just manage to offend anyone? If not, I will try again later. 