Generations - What's the problem?

Whistle
1

Hello all!

(I used to post as “Xopher” a year ago but lost my password.)

I dabbled with whistles about a year ago but went back to concentrating on my melodeon until my shoulder gave out (grrh!), so now I have taken up the whistle again. Having donated my various whistling acquistions to my brood I went into the local music shop and bought another Generation in the key of D. (They’re only £2.95 - and that’s an absolute snip). Yet again I had no problem. This time I refrained from any tweaking, all I did ('cause I am fussy) was run the fipple under the hot water tap and break the glue so that I could tune it to match the tutor CD (it was only a little sharp). No blu-tak, no sandpaper, no nothing. What I have is a nice sounding whistle.

I have compared it to the Feadog that I gave my eldest lad and I thing the Feadog is fantastic but my wife prefers the Generation over the Feadog so I am more that happy to continue with it. Which is nice because it is a bit less strident than the Feadog and after all it is the instrument of the top pros.

I compared it to the Clare that I bought and it is certainly the better of the two.

Also I live in the town where they make the Generations so that’s nice too. I entertain the notion of stealing in to the nearby factory and having a free hand in choosing the pick of a batch of Generation Ds in the hope of finding an absolute gem. However the last few Generations that I have bought have been similar and reliably in tune so I suspect the superb versions may be very hard indeed to come by, if they exist.

They appear to be a good whistle. At least as good as their competitors. Perhaps everyone should be looking again at this maligned make.

2

I’ve only tried two (a D and a Bb), but they’ve both been great, and all the ones I’ve heard have been great. An aquaintance of mine who’s tried a LOT of whistles says the Gens he’s tried have been fine. Bb has some tuning issues but nothing I can’t lip into place (and by lip I mean lips, breath, tongue, vocal tract, hip convulsions, etc).

3

I agree. I just got a brass D and a nickel C which have only been rinsed and both play better than most of the high enders I have owned. The C is especially nice.

4

Interesting enough the cop out when a good sounding one is heard: ‘it must be one of those mythical rare good ones’ or ‘but yes a player like that could make any old thing sound great’

What about this Generation C? Nothing wrong with that is there?


5

I love that rendition of ‘Rolling in the Rye Grass.’ Thanks.

6

You’re welcome

7

Ah, Peter that was lovely! I play that tune (not that well) and really appreciated it. As I’ve said in another thread, I’ve a whole bunch of really nice Gens in various keys and agree with Peter that sometimes things around here get a rep due to a rolling snowball effect of just one or two bad real first hand experiences perhaps.

Philo

8

The problem, at least on this side of the big puddle,
is, that while the Bbs are OK and the Cs are also, though often
less so, the Ds are often almost unplayable–they squawk
badly and are very hard to control. I keep buying these
trying to get a good one, maybe one in four or five
is OK. There seems to be a terrific quality control
problem–unless it’s been fixed, but I don’t suppose
that would register here for some time.

Some time ago some of us wrote to Generation, appealing
to them to do something about it, as people like myself
are fans of these whistles. I’ve had quite a few of them,
due to my continuing efforts to get something good.

I’ve played whistle now for maybe 8 years seriously,
and I played not so seriously for many years before.
Generations were much better in the early 80s, at
least those available in the USA.
I had some Generations then, when i was just tootling,
that I didn’t appreciate for what they were.

I’m not having these problems with other inexpensive
whistles I’ve played lately, e.g. the Clare. Though a good
Generation is better than a Clare, IMO. The Freeman
tweaked Generation is much better than what we usually
get in stores here, though the older whistles were
better still, as I remember them.

I have no axe to grind against any whistle (why on earth would I?),
indeed I’ve played Generations for thirty years. The idea
that my impression is based on incompetence is more plausible,
still eight years is awhile, I’ve taken a number of lessons,
I practice about two hours a day most every day (a good deal
of this is flute, however, but I play whistles too), and
I’m not an entirely untalented musician, truth be told. Also
why would the problem involve only Generations? And
why would they get worse as I get better?

So the problem is quality control, to answer your question.
Playable ones are hard to find over here, not mythical,
or I would stop looking
for em. That you (or several of you) went out and presto, got a good one, is consistent with this, obviously.

If most Generations available
where you are are pretty darn good, then maybe different
ones are sent here. If that’s not true then I don’t know what’s
going on, but it isn’t that the folks complaining
can’t play whistles worth a damn or that we hate cheapies.
Widespread complaints from serious muscians probably should
count for something.

Something is wrong with most of the Gens we buy, espeically
the Ds. Gens used to be better, IMO.

9

If most Generations available
where you are are pretty darn good, then maybe different
ones are sent here.

Where do you live? 'Cause I live in Chicago, and I’m thinking if they have bettered their quality control, maybe 'cause this is a bigger city (=more stuff being bought), we get a newer batch more quickly? shrug I dunno.

10

I’ve got a brass Generation C (first whistle I ever bought) from around 1991 (has the old style mouthpiece with a ridge along the bottom). It’s the best C whistle I’ve ever played (dents and all).

-Brett

11

I’m going to buy a Generation here when I next come across one in a music store…just buy one, possibly sight unseen if my wife is the next visitor to the shop (she picks up piano music frequently).

I’ve heard two very good whistle players at two different sessions recently who both were playing untweaked Gen Ds that didn’t appear old in the least bit…they were inspirational.

Eric

12

My Generation C (the only one I’ve ever bought) probably sounds this good. So does my Generation F. I haven’t ever had a Generation D sound this good.

13

Peter,

Nice sound clip. Lovely sound, nice playing with a great lilt. Maybe I should get a whistle in C too.



Good to hear that others are finding Gens all right too.

14

I don’t buy it: the ones I see sound like: this Generation D and that is including the ‘unplayable’ sample sent to to me by Jerry F., which actually had a brighter sound than the one in the clip. This is an old one, for comparison.
Like the clip above, these were lifted from WhistleThis but I’ll gladly do a better quality recording myself to make the point.

The suggestion, made before, that the lesser quality ones get shipped to the US?

Can I also point to Emtor’s thread advertising his modified Feadogs which ran along similar lines: his soundclips representing his assumption all Feadogs sound like the ones in his clip countered by a clip I recorded using my son’s practice whistle clearly showing a randomly picked whistle does not need any hacking, filling or filing to sound half decent.

Maybe finally the time has come the ‘unplayable’ crowd should post some examples of their playing to show their statements are backed by any credible, real skills at playing.

15

I’ll add a few points for whats it’s worth… I’ve bought three Gens, One Brass, one Nickel in D, and a Brass in C. Strangly enough, other than the differences attributable to the different body materials or deeper sounding key, they sounded very consistant with each other. All three sounded pretty decent up until about the second octive F or G. From there on up the scale, the level of audible scratchiness/raspiness increased to the point of unpleasantness. Tweaking seamed to smooth the two D’s out but did not help the C enough to make me want to play it anymore. It also seems to me that the Feadog has a bit better pitch tonality with itself although both brands respond a lot to breath variation. I’d have to agree with Peter that it seams unlikely that “inferior” ones are being sent over here (US). Large manufacturers wouldn’t take the time or bother to “test play” hundreds of whistles, never mind even the “questionable saliva effect” concern. :open_mouth: I wonder if the scratchiness that I found bothersome is percieved by me (the player) more than would be evident to a listener or on a recording?

16

Scratchiness increases with overblowing, see emptor’s example that I can only achieve by blowing extremely hard.

It is a concern in whistles though, cheap as well as some not so cheap and the ‘unplayable’ Jerry sent me had a degree of it that would have made me put it aside. Interestingly Jerry’s prototypes that came with it, were not tweaked to address this and I had to point it out to him they should have been.

17

Thanks for the tip Peter but I did try blowing a little softer, even to the point of getting “hung up” between upper and lower octives but on mine, the scratchiness was still there albiet slightly less noticable. Could it be that the “tastes” for what sounds good is partly responsible for like/dislike issue. I personally love my Hoovers and Dixons so would have little tolerance for scratchy…

18

None of mine are scratchy but it would be something I look out for when buying whistles. As I said, it is not confined to the one type, I once tried five alu Dixon’s in Custy’s when they were new and each at the price of ten or so Generations, they were all five of them scratchy in the high notes. So that put me thoroughly of those. The Dixon Trad I bought isn’t scratchy by the way.

A good cleaning can sometimes remove bits that cause disruption.

19

Maybe finally the time has come the ‘unplayable’ crowd should post some examples of their playing to show their statements are backed by any credible, real skills at playing.

Wether the below URL would serve as an example of “credible, real skills at playing” or not is something I leave up to others to judge,
but the Generation F whistle tends to be unforgiving if one is in the habit of constantly overblowing.
I’m not an expert whistle-player, but I do consider myself to be able to execute at least some breath-control.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vM14gh8vkaQ

20

Before reading this please note that i’m a DASBT player (i love the easy playing sweet sounding whistles) of a little under two years of playing whistle.

A few months ago i bought a Gen Eb mail order; so i certainly didn’t get to pick through the bunch.

At first i thought it was horrible along all the lines the complainers of Gens say, but having read posts on here from people like Peter, and others, who said it was down to the player, i have occasionally been playing the Gen (when i felt like a bit of a challenge) and over the last few months i’ve noticed an improvement in the sound and playability of the whistle.

Some days it sounds really nice, doesn’t squawk and rasp, even to the point that i begin to really appreciate it. Then the next day i pick it up and it sounds pants. The whistle doesn’t change, i do. As a relatively new player of the whistle my average day of breath and finger control is not up to the Gen’s requirements, on a really good day it is, on a bad day i won’t even think of playing the Gen.

But if i were a young child with not much pocket money and the Gen was the only whistle i could have, then i’d play it every day (instead of my DASBT) and i do believe that i would happily master it’s idiosyncrasies (sp?). I admit i’m just being a bit lazy about it at the moment because i already have a whistle that plays easily, so why bovver to struggle?

The Gen is a good teacher.