Cloggy 2 Burke whistles. Warning: Controversy

Whistle
1

Okay, I have finally decided to out this situation.

I have two brass pro session Burkes that have become nearly worthless to me. Why, you ask? Well, I don’t know and either does anyone else, presumably.

The two in question are a C and and my very favorite Eb. The latter was a very exceptional Burke which I showed off to Tony and Stout at a whistle party, and they liked it. It’s about two years old, I bought it in person from Mike at the SF Tionol. It was the most perky responsive whistle I have ever played of any make. Not any more.

The C is about four years old and was before the black-tip construction so it has the all-brass upper fipple.

Here’s the deal. The whistles started off great. Very playable and clear in both octaves. Over a period of time the C began to sound reedy, or one would say, chiffy but not pleasant. Basically, after a short period of playing, both whistles SEEM to clog up. The Eb started doing the exact same thing a few months ago. The fact that it happens on both is what is leading me to post here. One’s an anomaly, two is a pattern.

I have tried everything I can imagine to clean them. Duponol, soap, hot water, drawing soft cloth, leather, whatever to clean the surfaces. I have been careful NOT to scratch the windways fwiw.

No matter what I do, within a minute of playing either, they clog up, but no amount of cleaning, tapping or whatever gets them to stop being fuzzy, and unpredictable especially on what would be the high B on a D whistle. This is the normal weak spot on so many whistles, but never was on these two until they developed their “issue.” FWIW, I played the Eb a LOT because it was so much more agile than the D.

And yes, folks, I sent the C back to Mike. He says he cleaned it and that it was a great whistle. But it’s not a great whistle, it came back exactly as I sent it, only cleaner. Individual notes can sound okay, but trying to make it thru a reel or jig results in this balky behavior that gets in the way.

My theory is that somehow, the delrin is no longer possessing the smoothness that it once had, sort of like the vinyl parts on your car that lose their lustre from the sun and no amount of Armor-All can restore. I figure that it must be causing them to clog, subtly. I have thought about trying to draw some leather strip with a bit of car wax on it to perhaps restore that smooth, non-binding surface. this is based on the idea that the problem is simple clogging. But perhaps it’s some kind of loosening of the overall delrin block in some place that I can’t even see. The things look as clean as can be and I KNOW that the air path is pretty simple on a whistle, so overcomplicating it seems crazy.

Look, I know what I know. I know how they played and how they are now. Though I don’t have a great repertoire, I can play pretty decently, the articulations and all that stuff. I reached a pretty decent level and it was always HELPED by my whistles, not hurt. But to play either of these whistles sound like a clog, even if I just ran warm water through 'em, tapped 'em, etc etc etc. They sound like they have a cold, basically.

And yes, I keep my mouth clean, don’t play with cracker crumbs, and I don’t salivate Elmer’s Glue. I am not sick or snotty on a regular basis…

Any resonance of experience out there??? I am completely bummed, especially about the Eb. Man, was that a great whistle…

The D’s (I have a pro-al and brass) do not seem to have developed this exact problem, though they aren’t quite as perky as they used to be.

And for those of you who tell me to play a generation or feadog, I just say this. I really have come to dislike holding an all plastic fipple in me maw. I really don’t like it, even though I find the thin-walled cheapies to be very agile for rolls and such… I had a tweaked Obriaian Feadog that was pretty darn good, but it was swiped with my car.

On the larger philosophical question, these are $120 whistles. On the one hand, that’s a lot of money. On the other, why should Mike Burke really want or care to somehow fix something that doesn’t even make sense as a problem? His prerogative is to make and sell new ones, not take apart old ones based on a problem that he doesn’t even perceive.

He had the C and it came back the same as I sent it. I don’t expect him to “fix” them nor do I bear any resentment, but I am curious if any of you have had a similar experience and been able to resolve it.

2

I’m sure you know much more about whistles than me but what I do with a problem whistle is shut it away in a draw for a few months till it learns how to behave properly. Usually they come out of the draw playing better than they have ever done previously. Teach the darn things a lesson and shut them away for a while!

3

I bought a Burke WBB on Ebay last year.

It had an enchanting tone but would always clog up within seconds of starting to play it, no matter how carefully it was warmed.

I cleaned and cleaned, did the soapy water trick, tried everything I could think of, to no avail.

Then I cleaned the windway with waxed dental floss.

I can’t swear it’ll work for you, but I’ve not had that whistle clog even once since then, even when played cold.

Might be worth trying.

–James

4

Well, if that worked, then the leather strip with car wax probably will, too.

5

Curious Weeks, My wide bore D brass will have 5 years soon and I never had such a problem (the same as for clogging issues, I actually can’t remember if it ever clogged.) It’s taken a hard beating indeed. It has been lent, dropped, soaked in beer and so on and the only thing I can perceive it’s a very slightly loose cap that sometimes moves in my lips when I play that I see as a natural consequence of such a hard and careless living.

6

Maybe, as you get older, you are just starting to drool more. And it’s not that cute baby-spit bubbles kind of drool; it’s the beginnings of that gross kind of drool you find in the nursing home.

More drool = more clogging.

Thicker drool = less drool needed to clog

7

Nyuk. I think people drool less as they shrivel up, until the very end when they lose control. Man, what a grim direction to take thread…

Thanks for comments. I will likely try some kind of wax approach. I have nothing to lose at this point. it’s drivin’ me nuts because I know how good the Eb once was…

8

Hi, Weeks…I have played Burkes of both flavors since the whole Delrin mouthpiece design began. These whistles are played quite a lot. I have had a tuning slide come apart in the cold at an outdoor wedding, and various and sundry other minor anomalies - always correctable - but I have never experienced what you describe.

Clogging has never been a problem with my Delrin Burkes, but I use the Jet-Dry (duponol) treatment, anyway.

If you were a novice, I might have a suggestion or two - but you are certainly not. If you say there is an issue, I believe it.

When you discover what is happening, why, and a solution, I am very interested in hearing about it…

Good luck you your search.
Byll

9

Weeks, please post what you try and how it works for you.

I’ve got my fingers crossed for ya: my Burkes are wonderful whistles, and I’d cry like a baby if they became unplayable.

–James

10

I had a similar problem with a DAN after having played it for months without problems. All of the sudden I couldn’t get the first eight measures of any tune without a halting clog, even with a good warm up. I don’t play my Burkes very often at all nowadays but once I gave it a detergent treatment it hasn’t clogged on me once, even playing it with minimal or no warm up (I can think of two emergency situations where I had to grab it and go). I tried several folks’ methods for doing the treatment, several of them didn’t work for me. I found that diluting the soap with water did not work for me. I found that simply dipping the beak into a solution didn’t work for me. What I ultimately ended up doing was putting a pure drop of dishsoap (though I cannot recall the brand) directly into the windway and rotating the whistle around to ensure a good even coverage. I then just let it sit overnight to dry on it’s own. I gently rinsed it out in the morning with water and it’s been fine since. By the way, I did all this with the headjoint detached from the body.
Not that any of this was a big hassle but I’m glad this is the only whistle I’ve ever had to do this to.

11

Thanks, Stray. I never had the patience to wait all night, but I’ll try it. I had bought a bottle of Dr. Bronner’s peppermint soap years ago when I first started whistling for my Gens and Feadogs. Glad to know someone else had the same problem, (as well as Jim). You described it well.

12

Yes, actually.

I have a D-WBB and a C of the same vintage, both from the year 2000. I noticed a similar thing starting a few months ago, but only with the D. It seems that it either clogs or else there’s air leaking somewhere that results in unstable notes. I’ve played the D a lot more than the C, so there might be something to your theory of delrin losing its smoothness. I was thinking that maybe there’s a thin film of “crud” in there, not necessarily visible, from all the years of playing. The dental floss would probably clean that out as well as laying down some wax. I’ve found that JetDry helps, in my case, as well as a thin layer of wax or vaseline on the tuning slide.

So there … you’re not crazy.


Or else we both are. :wink: :slight_smile:

13

I just read straycat’s post and wanted to add that I also do the soap treatment at full-strength (and Jet-Dry at close to full-strength).

14

my Ian Lambe low D has the same problem. I had it for several months and it was fine, but now I can’t get through a tune without it clogging. I haven’t found any solution as of yet (tried cleaning with various things), but it’d be really nice to be able to play sets on it without have to stop at least every 30 seconds again…

15

Maybe it’s global warming.

16

I’m having a similar issue with my D alum wide bore. It’s almost 3 yrs old and is my everyday whistle. About three or four months ago it started playing poorly. I’ve always played poorly so it wasn’t that. There was no visible clog. After trying the usual remedies, I would leave it in a solution of dilute dish soap over night. It works for while. It also discolors the the aluminum a bit. Now I just let it soak in water overnight every 2 weeks or so (maybe 12-16 hrs playing time). I soak it as soon as it starts to go funky.

My playing is getting better and it’s still my favorite whistle, but it’s now a finicky favorite.

I thought about starting a thread asking if it is possible for a whistle to wear out from use but didn’t because I could not explaing to mysef how this could be.

Thanks Weeks for having the courage to step forward. I too have a wayward Burke.

If this is the first step to recovery, are there 11 more? Is recovery possible?

Mike’s always been very responsive although I haven’t raised this with him. I think it’s got to be some sort of additional or substration or reaction on the surface of the delrin or the aluminum.

17

Isn’t great for all yer WHOA guys? You buy a very expensive whistle and after seven years and a day it self-destructs so you can buy a new one.

18

I just knew you’d chime in, but to yer credit as per request, you didn’t mention Gens. :laughing: Thanks, I think!

And remember, these are not very expensive by the wooden standards.You want expensive? Why, I’ll show you ex… oh, never mind.

PS. Thanks, Wint (and Lisa et al). I have tried not to play the blame game about it regarding Mike. Maybe, like any newer product, it takes a lot of use on a broad spectrum for things to show up…And, if this is happening with metal and delrin, what about wood? I only have one seldom-played Sweet, so I would be extra upset if this went on with a real hoity-toity wooden whistle.. At a higher price, tho, I suppose I would be more expectant of the builder to rectify it.

19

Hi Weeks et al,

This may be nothing, but I recal being advised that acetal plastic (Delrin) is a truly remarkable substance - it is totally resistant to all the usual culprits that attack plastics (acids, alkalines, oils, corrosives etc) which makes it an ideal industrial substance.

However, it IS slightly water-absorbent. I am not able to find if this relates to solubility in any way, except that the chemical properties of acetyl are “changed” by water.

http://plastics.dupont.com/plastics/pdflit/europe/delrin/DELDGe.pdf

Anyways, it might not be advisable to leave delrin parts wet in storage. I.E. shake-out or swab the thang before putting it away.

20

and no keeping them in rainbarrels or soaking them in Guinness before you play.