I know there must be a reason why it wouldn’t work or somebody would be marketing one by now, so I’ll throw the idea at you all and see if someone can tell me why there currently is no such thing.
Couldn’t you make a chromatic whistle by using dual holes (one large and one small) like on a recorder?
It seems to me that this would be both possible, and the best solution to the issue of playing the accidental notes on a whistle.
Somebody please satisfy my curiosity!
“[Rain Dogs] …the ones you see wanderin’ around after a rain. Ones that can’t find their way back home. See the rain washes off the scent off all the mail boxes and the lamposts, fire hydrants…”
Tom Waits
[ This Message was edited by: raindog1970 on 2002-03-21 05:31 ]
I think the reason it hasn’t been done is that the result would be a recorder, and not a whistle. The fact that the whistle is basically not chromatic is a strength not a problem with it. And if you go to the basement, lock all the doors, and put a paper bag over your head, you can play the recorder all you want.
The matter has been up a few times and the question inevitably was would anyone WANT to do that. Well, ofcourse there are always a few. But isn’t there someone out there makign a ‘modal’ whistle that has exactly this feature on the f hole. Check the main site for your answer.
But isn’t there someone out there makign a ‘modal’ whistle that has exactly this feature on the f hole.
Overton makes a Soprano D/C that will play like a normal high D with an extra two holes for the Fnat and bottom C played by the thumb and the little finger (and, additionally, an Alto G/F)
a previous string asked why we liked the tin whistle.. well i like it because it is diatonic and it is not a recorder and just sounds incredible. a recorder has always sounded out of tune and bland to me.
besides there is enough with half holing and cross fingering to play just about anything. who could ask for more?
I think that Raindog asks a reasonable question. A chromatic whistle would not be the same thing as a recorder. It would still sound and play like a whistle, but with some double holes instead of all single holes. On a recorder, only the bottom two tone holes are double like this, with cross-fingerings being used to produce other accidentals; on a whistle they would have a pattern perhaps like this: 888 o88 (8 being a double hole). I’m not suggesting that this would be a desirable development, and I agree with Bloomfield that one real strength of the whistle is that it is not a chromatic instrument, but I can’t see why a chromatic whistle should be out of the question.(I’d just like to make it clear that I wouldn’t want one myself!)
I do possess something which comes close to Raindog’s idea, and that is an old plastic Aulos fife that I bought many years ago. The double holes are set in flat, raised rings. I’ve never really liked this fife, but it works well enough.
A simple system Irish flute may have anywhere from one to eight(?) keys to add accidentals. Why couldn’t the same system be used on a whistle? (at least a low whistle) – it’s just an endblown simple system flute.
Whitey
~. . . . . .
[ This Message was edited by: Whitey on 2002-03-21 05:31 ]
[ This Message was edited by: Whitey on 2002-03-21 05:32 ]
On 2002-03-21 05:24, Mick Woodruff wrote:
…on a whistle they would have a pattern perhaps like this: 888 o88 (8 being a double hole…
That’s exactly what I had in mind Mick, I just didn’t have enough coffee in me at the time I posted the original message to think to include an illustration… thanks!
I also agree with you that such a whistle would not be the same thing as a recorder… or even anything like a recorder for that matter.
I suppose a little experimentation with the idea will be necessary to fully satisfy my curiosity… I need a project to keep be from being bored this wekend anyway.
I’ve seen a keyed whistle somewhere…though I don’t recall it being fully chromatic.
I don’t see much need myself, though a nice F nat and G# would be nice.
On 2002-03-21 05:30, Whitey wrote:
A simple system Irish flute may have anywhere from one to eight(?) keys to add accidentals. Why couldn’t the same system be used on a whistle? (at least a low whistle) – it’s just an endblown simple system flute.
I think Ralph Sweet made some of his wooden whistles with a few keys.
On 2002-03-21 05:24, Mick Woodruff wrote:
. . .It would still sound and play like a whistle, but with some double holes instead of all single holes. On a recorder, only the bottom two tone holes are double like this, with cross-fingerings being used to produce other accidentals. . .
I’m not so sure that double holes are necessary. Off the modal whistle design, use the F-natural thumb hole. Use a D whistle lenght. Leave an E-flat hole for the pinky and play it closed (as opposed to the bottom C natural hole played open for D). Add a thumb hole for A-flat. B-flat can be cross fingered xoxxxx. C-natural can be cross fingered oxxooo. All tones are included in that design. Note, my thumb rests right where the A-flat hole would be needed (based on the difference in oxidation). Some folks keep their top thumb above their other fingers and claim I must be a contortionist to hold my thumb where it rests.
Colin, Bridget, are you getting this. What do you think Colin?
I wouldn’t necessarilly want to play such a whistle as my main squeeze, but It might be fun for Jazz and other music. I actually use half holing for F natural but not C natural. Go figure. . .
I’m not sure if it could be done. If you look at the size of the bottom recorder holes, they are pretty small, so a dual hole works. How much bigger would you have to make a whistle hole to raise its pitch a half step? And then to have them sitting side by side, with a little space between them, I’m wondering if the finger could cover all of the hole. You would also have to dent the area around the hole to make the hole area flat, like on the recorder. It would be interesting to see if someone could do it. Would you still be able to do slides? JP
In reference to a previous reply, I have a mostly chromatic fife made by Skip Healy. It has 10 holes, and so requires use of all fingers and both thumbs. Right hand pinkie does D#, while right thumb covers the F natural hole. Left pinkie is G# and left thumb is A#. There is no special provision for C natural.
I find the thumb holes particularly annoying especially the bottom one because you feel as though you are letting go of the instrument.
Selective use of this scheme may satisfy some folks in whistledom. Each to his own.
An analogous observation, if I may. The hammer dulcimer is a diatonic instrument. It has existed like that for many hundreds of years. Chromatic versions are available, of course. They are widely sold and used. While they are chromatic in name, and certainly contain all possible notes in 3 or 4 octaves, the chromatic dulcimer is still set up to be comfortably played in its ‘standard’ dulcimer-friendly keys. The chromatic notes are extras, and they are added to the instrument, physically, where the luthier chooses to do so. One chromatic dulcimer is not necessarily the same as another…Going from one instrument to another is in no way ‘automatic.’ Attempts at creating ‘linear’ or ‘piano’ chromatic dulcimers have met with limited success.
I am certainly not a Luddite, and ‘if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it’ is not my creed. However, I would not want to see the lack of standardization that exists in the dulcimer world creep into the whistle world…Part of the joy of working with whistles is their sparseness. Part of the marvel I feel at the accomplishments of professional players is that they sound like they do, while playing a tube with 6 holes in it. I would not want to lose that in the attempt to improve the genre.
Having in my whistle bag, one 2 foot tube that would somehow be voiced chromatically, and be able to cover 3 octaves is not important to me.
Looking over my previous comments, I see they have an almost negative cast. My apologies. Learned just last evening, that another of my college friends was lost in the WTC tragedy. Guess my mood, this AM, has crept into my post. Trying to hold onto the past, whether it be friendships or the simplicity of whistledom, I suppose is not possible for any of us.
Best to all.
Byll
I’ve experimented with Chromatic Whistles/Flutes and have built a few by special request. Even built an 11 hole flute.
Personally, I don’t like using all of my fingers and thumbs to get the full sound that is needed. It’s too clumsy for me.
I shooting for the idea of a 5 to 8 key flute design that can be used as a whistle as well. Kind-of like the Rudall-Rose Flutes of a 100 years ago.
The idea of the early flutes was to keep the standard 6-hole design and add the chromatic in-between where need, that way it was easy for plain 6-hole instrument folks to start playing the chromatic instrument without difficulty.
[ This Message was edited by: Daniel_Bingamon on 2002-03-24 09:55 ]
[ This Message was edited by: Daniel_Bingamon on 2002-03-24 09:56 ]
