I’ve recently read a couple of posts that hinted at this subject, but I haven’t been able to find anything specific to the topic.
Could one build a whistle that has six double holes? I’m thinking along the lines of a recorder’s lowest holes that are doubled to allow the C and C# as an example. Could a whistle be made that has six double holes to be fully chromatic? Has anyone done this? Is it being done today? There have been whistles with extra holes for extended range and those with keys, but could such a whistle eliminate half-holing and cross-fingering?
There are a few makers of 10 hole chromatic simple system flutes but I’ve never seen a whistle like that. I guess it’s technically possible on a bigger whistle.
Actually, you’d want 5 double holes - the F# hole / G vent (hole B1) would remain single.
The size of the whistle shouldn’t be an issue. Soprano recorders are the same range as D whistle, and manage double holes on D and C. As long as the combined area of the double holes is the same as the single. Scalloped holes might be possible on a thicker walled whistle. But plain double holes would probably work fine on the tube, if you play with normal flat-fingered pads.
As a maker of all sorts of instruments (not yet whistles, though, but it’s coming soon…) I can confidently say that it can be done very easily. I can also confidently say that in the second octave the diatonic notes will still work more-or less as they do on normal whistles, but I have my doubts about the semitones being in tune. The reason is that the bigger the hole, everything else being equal, the truer the overblown octave. Now, two half-holes add up to exactly the same open area as one full hole. But a half-hole (I mean by this one half of a double hole) is small. This will mean it will overblow, all right, but not exactly true. So unless you plan to use half-notes only in the fundamental, and diatonic notes only in the second octave, it’s not very helpful.
I’m not an expert but I’d guess there is a reason why recorders have double holes on C and D but use forked fingerings to get the rest of the chromatic notes. Yuri’s expanation might be the reason. I’ll be interested to see what our other whistle makers/tweakers have to say.
Well, the easiest explanation is that low (fundamental) Eb and Db are the only 2 notes on the instrument that don’t / can’t have cross-fingerings, basically because there aren’t enough holes below E and D. All other accidentals, including Eb and Db in other registers, can be crossed.
Qiute right.
If we get into the question of recorders, what makes it possible for them to function with much smaller holes than those of whistles is two reasons.
One is that the upper octave (and part of the third octave) notes have a completely different fingering from the fundamental. And by the way, there are far more than one type of recorder, and all these have solved the problem of good intonation by working out completely different fingerings for the second (and third) octave, depending on the type (while having the fundamental fingering the same).
The other reason is that good recorders (those with good intonations) have a very complex inner bore. Once again, it depends on the type of the recorder, but by and large the majority have a reversed tapered bore (approximately). Approximately because it’s not a cone, but a very complex mixture of segments of cones and cylinders. Think of it as a stepped bore. Some types have just stepped cylindrical bores, and one has a cylindrical for about 2/3 of the lenght, and then open conical bore. (As in the reverse of normal recorder practice.)
All this is done simply in the name of having reliable notes for the whole range, without half-holing. (which is fine for a lot of kinds of music, but not really fine for some others.)
A postscript. MtGuru, the Eb can be cross-fingered, it’s quite easy to make, but that will play merry hell with other notes in the second octave. Very early Renaissance recorders did, indeed, cross-finger it, but later, as the range increased, they found that it just doesn’t work. (the E wouldn’t overblow in tune, that’s why)(because the D hole was far too small so as to enable Eb cross-fingering, in case you wondered.)
That would work, however the sound quality may be variable from hole to hole because of cutoff frequency. The little holes work better on the low notes of a Recorder because the conical body keeps the air column strong on the bottom end.
I think the “Orkin” flute had keys with holes in the middle of the key for some of the in-between notes. That’s another way to do it.
Multi-hole whistles? Maybe I got something wrong playing a six-holed whistle… And I thought that multi-holes were traditional and single-hole whistles would be some weird experiment. Well, one learns his whole life.
You know, guys and gals, this whole thingie about recorders v. whistles is a bit like the thingie about grand pianos v. harpsichords. Harpsichord players think a g. piano is the equivalent of a drunk thug crashing in through the glass door into a refined restaurant, while g. piano players think a harpsichord is the equivalent of a Chinese tin toy piano. Neither is right, as a matter of fact. They are two different instruments, for different music, using different modes of expression, for different results. Just as you cnnot play Gabrieli on a g. piano (at least convincingly), so you can’t play Chopin on a harpsichord (ditto).
I think I don’t need to belabour my point.
First, we all know that that most recorder critics are also closet recorder players. So it’s best to regard their comments as pitiful cries for help and a way of venting their secret shame. How can you not be moved by the tragedy?
Second, if there were no recorders to bash, whistlers would have to turn their wrath to nose flutes and tabor pipes. And unlike well-behaved recorder players, nose fluters are nasty with lots of mucus, and tabor pipers carry mean-looking drum beaters. So you definitely don’t want to anger either:
MtGuru, I’m ready to kowtow to you. That is, if you are the star of the previous photo. I mean, just where did you get a photographer to record for posterity that great moment of you, in a moment of existantial anxiety, stuffing your rr up your nose? They are not easy to get, you know… (photographers, that is. Not r*s. These latter can be bought for $2.95 at any reasonable rubbish shop. (The variety that is intended for idiot kids to blow spit bubbles out of it for fun…) Or for $2000+ . (the variety that is for people making far more money per hour than I ever will be making per year.)
I make tabor pipes… Well, not for a living, I can’t say I could live from that… But for a pitiful attempt at making a living…BUT! I also make a mean drumstick!!! For the tabor, that is…
English Flageolets had six holes and were in high A with an extended tube that had other holes and keys to allow the lower notes to be played. A very complex system I would imagine. The recorder is the simplest easily chromatic instrument and you can see why it became so popular, but I am not convinced about the tone of the recorder for folk music. The notes are very centred which can make the recorder less expressive than the whistle.
I am plotting to try and do a vivaldi concerto on whistle with orchestra. Its going to take a lot of arm twisting. Could be interesting though.
I do think separate holes are the way to go.
