About a month ago I joined a listserve where members discuss Irish traditional music. While the exact definition of that is obviously debatable, as is the definition of Hawaiian music, the discussion on the list has been fairly genial. One member posted a request for suggestions on educational materials for learning Celtic guitar accompaniment. He got a few nice suggestions, and then this…
Excuse me while I throw up. There is no such thing as Celtic guitar accompaniment. There is no such thing as Celtic guitar. And there is no such thing as Celtic music. In fact, I can think of one authority who seriously disputes the contention that there was ever such a thing as a race of people who could be identified as Celts.
What do you call the overall genre that include Irish, Scottish and related music? I’ve only heard it being referred to broadly as “Celtic” music. I’m not sure if the poster took offense to the use of “Celtic” over “Irish” or something else that I can’t deduce from the post. I suggest Guinness therapy, in moderation, of course.
I did linguistics at university and I agree that Celtic is an accepted “genus” within the Indo-European family. Also someone said that Celtic is Greek etymol. and therefore Celtic isnt really Celtic. thats just plain silly . like Red Indian is English and does that mean that they aren’t really Amerindians?
this is a good topic smithand so here are my thoughts to make it better, albeit clumsily expressed. sorry about that.
Celtic Music.
a family of music which includes the geni of Irish, Scottish, Manx, Welsh, Cornish, Breton and Galician characterised by
a trad. corpus of lyrics sourced in one of these languages or reflects the ethnos associated with one of these languages.
a melodic predominance marked by the following modes of scale - ionian, dorian, mixolydian and aeolian (with differeing degress of adaption or fusion with western european classical harmonic treatment)
articulation that results in reticulate rather than architectural complexity
Having studied extensively at the University of the Pint, I can confidently put forward the notion that the term “Goidelic” might be related directly to “Celtic”. I don’t know. But the “Gal-”, “Gel-” or “Kel-” type root as relates to the Celts seems to be around, whether Greek of origin or Greek of borrowing. The Galatians of Paul’s New Testament exasperation were a Celtic community, I understand. Note, though, that the Galicia of East-Central Europe is not “Celtic” (although some argue that. Being no expert, I scoff), but a Romanisation of the Slavic:
Nano, the “Celts” were a language group, not a specific nation of people. The designation is from modern language scholars, not from peoples of those times. They came into Europe from the east in several waves over a period of centuries.
One particular wave brought a group of people who conquered the northern part of Greece. The Greeks called this particular group “Keltoi”. They called themselves some variation on “Gaul”. These people in northern Greece would later contract as an army to Alexander the Great of Greece. They did not follow Alexander for his entire trek, but chose to settle in Turkey. That is where you get “Galations” from.
St. Paul, whom you referred to, was also one of these “Kelts” from Greece. His original name was Saul of Tarsus. He never met Jesus, but joined the Apostles after the fact.
More people moved into what is now called France. The region of Europe at that time was called “Gaul” after them. Their language was related to that of the peoples who had conquered northern Greece, so scholars called them “Celts” as well. Archeological evidence suggests they were a different culture. There were several waves of different invaders who spoke “Celtic”-related languages. Each group had their own customs and beliefs. The little that is known of them comes from the writings of the Romans and what archeological evidence remains after two millenia.
Some various tribes moved on through Spain (Iberia) and onward into Ireland, others from Brittany onward into Britain. They were all different tribes, but had similar languages. That’s where the term comes from that you referred to: “Goidelic” for “Celtic” languages in Ireland and Scotland. Its mate is “Brehonic” for “Celtic” languages in Brittany and Britain (later Wales and Cornwall).
The modern hodge-podge of many peoples’ folk music that wants to be called “Celtic” strikes me as just a ploy for publicity. The association of the languages was from millenia ago. These cultures and languages from these countries has been separated for centuries, and has little to do with each other than what normal influences one might expect from all being in Europe IMHO. That is why I object to the term “Celtic”.
I dislike the term “Celtic music” if for no other reason than it’s come to mean that airy-fairy, singing-under-water, new-agey crap. Go to the “Celtic music” section of a CD store, and you’ll not find a single trad group, that’s for sure.
What really gets irritating is when people come to IGTF and ask to have something translated into “Celtic.” After we carefully explain that there is no single “Celtic” language, and tell them that we have Irish, Gaelic and Welsh speakers there – which would they like? – they inevitably come back with “I don’t care, so long as it’s Celtic.” ARRRRGGGGGHHHHH!
As I noted above, the early migration of Gaels passed through the Iberian penninsula, but that was so long ago I doubt there was any remaining connection. As to the relationship of Galician music, Carlós Nuñez says that in the early 17th century, when the last of Ireland’s Gaelic royalty were defeated and chose exile rather than stay in an Ireland controlled by England, many passed through the various Spanish states as mercenaries. He said that the jig-like 6/8 tunes in the Galician repertoire date from this time.
The conductor of a local symphony orchestra (in a suburb of Seattle) is from England. Next year (February, I believe), they are doing a concert with a guest performer: Eileen Ivers. The conductor mentioned it at their last concert, describing her as, “Eileen Ivers, a seltic fiddle player.” What’s the common pronunciation of the word “Celtic” in England? Hard “c” or soft?
Well, FWIW, I know an elderly woman born and raised in Belfast who was a passenger in my car once while we were listening to a Mick O’Brien CD, and she said, “I love the ould Seltic airs.” I suppose it depends.
Maybe she was winding me up. I didn’t ask, of course.
OTOH, I recall Donovan pronouncing the word “kelt” on one of his LPs back in the day.
Neither of the two are English, but what the heck.
It’s only pronounced with the “s” in the names of sports teams (not only the Boston basketball team, but I believe there’s a football team in Scotland that uses the “s” pronunciation). Otherwise it should be a hard “c.”
Do they usually pronounce it “Seltic”, too? 