They’ll be perfectly reasoned, balanced and unassailable in their internal logic and grammar. I can’t wait. 
What for?
Gon out. Backson.
(Not.)
Busy. Tunes! Performance!! Festival. 
Sorry, Jem, you’ve lost me. Can you be a bit more explanatory?
not good at terse 
Many antique chanters were built to length, from 14 1/2" to 18 1/2" in 1/2" increments, not to any specific desired pitch obtained from a more precise length. Pipers in the old days didn’t care about pitch, they were almost entirely solo artists. There are exceptions to this rule, too. Ennis’s chanter I believe was a 16". Liam O’Flynn says the set isn’t stamped btw so it may just be an excellent Coyne copy.
Would love to see this Coyne flute, too. That family made very nice pipes.
Deegan and Smyth play modern instruments built by Geoff Wooff, who sets things precisely at A=440. He copies a C# Coyne whose owner lives in Tazmania. Brad Angus can build a copy of this set as well, he lives in the States.
Pulling the head on my old G Cloos flute out 1 3/8" I can get in tune with recordings of Brad playing one of his C# copies, so an antique LP might well do the trick. Cloos is what Rod Cameron copies for an 8 key flute, btw, them and R&R.
“Precise” is an imprecise word with the pipes, btw - other day I had to tune the regulators back up about 5 cents for some reason, heat or humidity doing their thing.
no, I don’t think so. I can’t authoritatively speak for the others but I would opine that Rob Sharer and Chiffed, like me, are defending this position of yours
If anything, I am hoping to wind Jem down …
Whhhhhiiiiirrrrrrr…
Well. I’m not totally sure I got the Pooh quite right… and I couldn’t do the line layout I wanted via mobile phone. Have edited it now. Any clearer?
Thanks Kevin,
I had read about the chanter length thing it just never had a reason to click before. Your post has been really helpful. I begining to suspect a a flute at a=420 ish or even an LP with a fair extension will do the trick as has been related by yourself and some others.
I used to have a cloos F that I bought off of Sillydil I think. I didn’t use it much after I got a Sweet F that has more power to it. I sent it along as a surprise gift to someone who bought a severely broken flute from me so at least they’d have something playable when the package arrived.
So are Woof b sets at 440 as well? I have a B flute and am finding a lot of recorded sets are quite a bit higher and I have to push the head in or blow like hell causing some intonation problems not insurmountable a few cents but 20- 30 is a challenge. Most C sets seem to be closer to C so I’d imagine the coresponding inch length is close to c or players in C chose to have them pitched in C a440 because they want an instrument they can play with others?
Is there a chart somewhere on the uilleann forum that gives chanter lengths in a pitch standards , I feel like I’ve seen that before there?
Thanks again for the help, Patrick
Remind yourself that length isn’t the only determining factor of pitch. There are things at work on the inside of chanters as well.
chanter elves
Right Gumby, I’d imagine reeds are a huge factor as well. As I have often heard of reedmakers trying to get chaters to play down at D that play best higher I think specifically some Leo and taylor brothers. Length must be important to some degree. I think you pipers talk about bore perturbations too no? Anyway I’m more of a pipe owner than a piper and don’t inflict bad piping on others. I play the flute out and about. Why didn’t pipers stick to calling them by lengths instead of switching over to pitches just to confuse us all trying to play along. Thanks again for all the info.
Concert pitch can be from 14 to 14 1/2". People still copy 14" chanters even though you wind up needing a bit of rush in the bell to flatten the bottom note, and a wide flat pitched reed to bring the overall pitch down. Others go for 14 1/4", 14 3/8". I think Wooff’s chanters are 14 1/2". Smaller bore = flatter pitch. My 1st Bb chanter was an Egan copy with a wider bore than usual, giving a sharper pitch for its length - it was happiest between B and Bb.
C is usually 16 1/4" or 16 1/2", B an inch longer, Bb is 18" to 18 1/2". You can wind up with an excellent reed that just happens to play sharp or flat, however; I think Tommy Reck’s pipes on the Stone in the Field LP are tuned a bit sharp - producer Pat Sky made all the reeds the week before they cut the album, as Tommy had gotten it into his head to take the set apart and the reeds didn’t work anymore. They couldn’t quite get one regulator in tune, hence the lack of regs.
And also, as I said, sometimes a reed just decides it wants to play sharp or flat a bit, a bit of a nuisance if you like using the regulators. If you’re in the ballpark of a chanter’s pitch a metal tuning slide should get you in tune, maybe the intonation will take some extra work. My Cloos is quite happy with the tuning slide out a mile though.
I have three concert flutes by Cloos, btw - interested? You can’t have the 11 key with the ivory head, sorry! Others are 8 keys all wood. I have piccolos and a 6 key conical bore fife too, but no F flute.
Hi again Kevin,
This is all great information. Thank you for all the help. I may hold off on the Cloos flutes for now but any idea of a price out of curiosity? I used to run into a lot of Cloos and Firth type flutes in fleamarkets , my mother dragged me to countless fleamarkets but always held off because back then I was told by players in my area to hold off on American and German flutes and wait for the good English ones. Most of these were extremely dry and cracked, padless and headjoint corks missing and I didn’t know enough about flutes then to give them a porper test drive. Also they tended to be far over priced. Every antique dealer tried to attach some civil war history or value to any wooden flute then as well. Ah the days befor ebay!
Can’t help much about the price, except to point out the ‘dealers’ list in the flutemakers thread. I’m trying to evaluate my Goulding 8-key, and there seems to be quite a range.
Mr. Migoya?
Mr. Cornia?
Doc?
?
(Keeping in mind these guys are in business, and this is kinda like cornering your doctor at a party…)
Flea market flutes. Arggh. I was born at the wrong time. And if someone starts up a story about buying a large-holed R&R for 2 pounds at a boot sale, I’ll freak.
BTW, sorry for muddying the waters about pitch. It’s one of those multi-paradigmed thinks that’s been well covered.
Hi Chiffed,
I have a good idea of what flutes are worth these days based on what they sell for here to mostly players and not collectors I would assume. I was asking about Kevin’s Cloos and out of curiosity what he’d like for one? I’m only 28 and flea market flutes are very much still available it’s just Ebay has changed that quite a bit from what I can see. A specialty item like a wooden flute is likelier to go on there, but there are countless people who do not use the internet. Last week I found a piccolo unmarked unpadded and uncracked but cocus and likely English made for a very very cheap price also a one row accordion, loads of deals still to be had on ebay too. Someone got a Pratten for something like a fiver in Glasgow not that long ago if I remember. Just keep trolling. Junk shops, car boot sales, flea markets the fun part is the search and recognizing what type of stall or shop is likely to have a wooden flute based on their other junk so one can get through the whole place and not waste time. Good luck, Pat
Hi Pat,
$150+shipping would do. Nice round number. I forget what I paid for most of my huge eBay flute collection. Disagree about it being a bad thing, you’d have to travel the world over to find all these goodies. Before eBay really took off I only found a few flutes in the Portland OR area - no name German job for $500 (didn’t buy), William Hall and Son keyless fife for $125 (did buy), that was about it.
Anyway I hardly ever play this thing and it would be great to get it to someone who’ll use it, I can send you pics and MP3 to your listed email if you’re up for it. Checking it against C# pipers it sounds quite good against Ennis and Mikey Smith, with the head out a mile, which matches my experience with the ivory head Cloos flute I play more often - Terry McGee wrote about certain old flutes being happiest with the head out much more than you’d expect to be normal.
Back to the tuning on this flute, playing along with Dickey Deegan, it’s not as good - he seems to be tuned up sharp of modern C#, perhaps he likes it that way. I know Dickey’s an avid reedmaker so he can likely tune a set up sharp if he’s so inclined.
Let me think about the Cloos certainly a good price. Thanks for your help!, Pat