When beginning, is it normal to have a little trouble getting the beat right? I don’t play another instrument or anything, like I know a lot of you do. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not one of those speed-obsessed people, I am just trying to get the timing right and it seems as though there is a bit of a delay with getting my fingers to move. I was just wondering if this is something that everybody experiences when starting out, and is it something that gets better with practise? Or am I doomed to be out of time forever? 
This is a VERY common problem!! As a beginner, your brain is trying to keep track of a LOT of things-- fingering, tongueing, breathing, notes, etc. Rhythm often falls by the wayside. Once you learn a tune or 2 by heart, the beats will start to get easier. YOu could try a metronome, but frankly they are a pain in the butt. In time you will get better even without it.
Yes I agree a metronome would be a pain. And there is a good reason for this. I struggle with the same problem. The issue is that Celtic Music like Afro-American music is done by feel and has to come from inside. I believe it was the group U-2 who refered to themselves and the Irish as the Blacks of Europe. What you have is a very specific disorder. It is called, White man’s disease. There is a treatment. You need to listen to the music at every opportunity. Buy CD’s etc and hear over and over. But more importantly seek out live performances. Celtic music with its ornamentation is very improv like Blues or Jazz. The key here is you gotta work on that Irish soul and develop an internal metronome. The music you here will be far more advanced than your level but what it will do is develop your “groove thang.” Immersion is the key. -It don’t mean a thing if it ain’t got that swing. This may sound silly but it is really seriously the way to do it.
Problems with the beat are not only common, they are unavoidable. Learn to sing the tunes, you get a good beat going there, and then try to translated it onto the whistle. It takes a lot of practice before the fingers do what they are supposed to do and when.
Fred,
I doubt your racial beat theory, frankly. I’ve known black men, and Irish for that matter, who couldn’t keep a beat to save their lives. And Joe Zawinul, who is Austrian for God’s love, has rhythm coming out of my ears. One of my sons was born rocking to the beat, and the other can’t even clap in time. And anyway, rhythm can be learned.
Don’t worry, Jessi, even long-time veterans have trouble getting the beat right on unfamiliar tunes, and a few will mess up the tunes they’ve played for years if given the chance (!). What I like to do when approaching a new tune (and I’ve been playing 20+ years) is imagine a guitar or piano playing an introductory rhythm pattern and keep that rhythm going in my head as long as I need to, then start playing the tune, which even then will be awkward if the fingering isn’t “natural” to me or if it reminds me of something else I am familiar with. If you like a tune, live with it for a while, and don’t get discouraged if your fingers don’t keep up with your brain. They will, eventually. If you learn tunes from print sources, read through the notes rhythmically without playing them. Ignore the melody line, just think through the rhythm until it feels comfortable. For example, you might read through a jig that goes “DUH-duh-duh DUH-duh-duh/DAAA-duh Duh-duh-duh” (if that’s how the notes lie; the DAAA being a quarter note and the rest eighths). If you’re not a reader, listen to the tunes you want to play (ignore the ornamentation at this point) and count out what the musician is doing in much the same way. And practice, Tiny Jessi, practice. Let me echo brewerpaul’s comment that you have a lot of things to keep in your mind as a beginner. Keeping the beat is a tricky one, but since you’re not speed-obsessed, you’ll find your way there eventually. You are not doomed if you apply yourself!
It’s not a racial beat theory. Sorry if it came across that way. What I mean is that you have to experience the music. That means a lot of Pub Sheabeening and Celtic festivals. Usually this is very participatory music and the crowd is clapping their hands and moving with the music. By doing this you get an internal right brain feel for the beats and rhythms. I do see a lot of similarities between Irish music and something like the blues. I alternate practicing Celtic stuff on the whistle and blues riffs on the harmonica. It’s interesting. The styles use different techniques to achieve what they are doing but are both very feeling and expressive improv music unlike Western classical music where you work to a metronome for hours on end. Of course some of the best traditional Western classical musicians were good because they understood this. Look at Liszt.
Learn to tap your foot. Tap it loud enough to hear it. If you can’t maintain the rythmn you’re tapping to, slow down until you can. (For some reason, this works best for me if I’m standing up! Go figure! ) 
One thing that’s helped me a bit is to learn a song and then find a recording of it to play along with.
That might help you, I don’t know.
Good luck!
I’ve got this cd, “Great irish pub songs” or something like that. It’s a bunch of short-versions of common pub songs (Dicey Riley, Big Strong Man, etc) recorded live in Ireland. I was terribly amused by the few songs where you could hear the 10 or 15 (presumably) drunk irish bar patrons clapping completely out of the beat. 
Greg
On 2002-06-14 10:10, Bloomfield wrote:
and Irish for that matter, who couldn’t keep a beat to save their lives.
I had a friend at University who couldn’t even walk in time. Now there was a spanner.
And you know how girls can usually dance and guys can’t? Uh uh, I had another friend who so bad, I had to shut my eyes or she’d make me seasick right there on the dance floor.
So, er, anyway…hope that helps some!
I agree with the post about tapping your foot. Not only do you hear it (assuming your not on carpet), but you can feel it, too.
I disagree with the assertion that a metronome is pain. It can be very useful when trying to learn rhythm, timing, and speed control. I’ve played various instruments and styles of music since middle school, and I still use a metronome periodically.
Also, playing along with other musicians is a good way to learn timing and rhythm. Try the virtual session site. It’s great.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio2/folk/acoustic_club/launch.shtml
Keep practicing. You’ll get it.
~ Thornton
[ This Message was edited by: ThorntonRose on 2002-06-14 10:39 ]
I think a metronome is problematic until you reach a certain level of proficiency. When you’re new to an instrument and still trying to learn to “walk and chew gum,” the metronome is a distraction and may make you more flustered than is helpful. I agree, however, that once you’ve gotten to a certain point in your playing, the metronome has its uses.
I agree with others that listening is key to developing a feel for the rythmn. Toe-tapping works for many, but I’m one of those people who can’t do one thing with one part of my body while I’m trying to do something else with another 
. For example, I can clap or I can sing, but I can’t clap and sing at the same time. I’ve had to learn to keep a rythmn going internally, which is where all that listening comes in.
Keeping a steady and correct rythmn is probably the most challenging thing for any new musician, whatever the instrument. Keep practicing, keep listening, and it will come with time.
Redwolf
I think, if you can play a tune - any tune - ‘at speed’ or at least something reasonably fast, that a metronome can be very useful. If you can’t do this, it’s useless, at least, the way I’ve used it.
The first thing I did was put the metronome on verrrry slow… (well, the first thing I did was put the metronome ‘at speed’ and crash into a figurative brick wall, but I’m trying to talk about what worked not what didn’t ) and played my tune to the metronome DAA-da-da-da DAA-da-da-da, etc.
I got lost before I finished the first bar, but went back to the start and tried again, and made it through the second bar before getting scrambled, and the third time the castle fell over and -then- sank into the swamp… err.
Any-way, playing with a metronome in this fashion is really quite painful, it is true, but it doesn’t last long, because step two is to shut the *#!?! thing off and tap your foot as steadily as possible, and play to that (and try not to tap your foot to your playing, play to the tapping of your foot… and try not to stretch the notes to make sure the high note falls on the beat… not all accented notes are high notes… and whatever your personal mental pitfalls might be…)
Once you can play (mind you, at half or one-third speed) either with a metronome or a foot, then you get to combine the two, tapping the foot to the metronome until -that’s- in sync and then playing to the tapping of the foot. If you try to tap your foot to the metronome and play to the metronome, you’ll both scramble your brains and teach yourself a bad habit… the foot moves to the beat, the music follows the foot…
Hmmm. I think I probably spent quite a time between less successful ventures just playing alternating notes to the beat and other rather hypnotic praticisms as they struck me.
Anyway, I will reiterate that I was literally incapable of clapping in time with a beat, always slipping off-time from the crowd, and I’m now, I think, reasonably strong rhythmically. Not great, mind… if I picked up a bodhran, I’d probably get lynched, but I can play in groups without getting lost and lead groups without losing people, and when I’m doing really well I get people tapping their foot to my playing and they can keep doing it at a steady rhythm and be on the beats… (these are the real tests, of course… if it -sounds- rhythmic to the ‘audience’ and ‘other players’ (if there’s a distinction between these even…) then it’s rhythmic.)
And yes, I have a lot of opinions for someone whose been playing for less than a year, but I swear, it’s not that hard to learn! All you have to do is play for hours every day and let all your other hobbies slide into oblivion… I’m not obsessed, I swear!
–Chris
I have a friend in reenacting whose son plays the tuba in a marching band. The kid plays well, and right with the rest of the band, but can’t march in step while he’s doing it to save his soul. I don’t know how he manages that, but he does.
Thankyou all for your advice, kind words of encouragement and for your patience! I will try each of the ideas suggested and see which one/ones works for me. I don’t have a lot of time to practise everyday, but I do squeeze the odd ten minutes in here and there. By the way…I am 17 years old, is that too old to start playing? I hope not!
By the way…I am 17 years old, is that too old to start playing? I hope not!
You’ve got an edge over most of us…
I’m 17 and I just started playing less than a year ago.
I’m not very good, but that’s not what you asked.
Oh, cool, so it’s fairly doable then to start around about now? I was just a little worried because a lot of things require people to start when they’re very young…like four years old or something. Not to say that I’m old..I’m quite young..
I’ll shut up now!
On 2002-06-15 08:55, Tiny Jessi wrote:
By the way…I am 17 years old, is that too old to start playing?
Oh, PLEASE!!! Mary
[ This Message was edited by: Whistlin’Dixie on 2002-06-15 11:07 ]
17 huh. I guess you won’t be Sheabeening pubs for a couple of years yet, lol. From the above humor you probably get that you aren’t over the hill entirely relative to this crowd. The nice thing about the pennywhistle is that you don’t have a lot of social pressure to be good at it. Which means you can enjoy it more and probably acutally get good because there is no pressure. As for getting the beat listening to music at every opportunity either recorded or especially live.