What's important?

I’d like to hear the thoughts of other players concerning what elements of daily practice they consider to be important for a complete newcomer to the whistle. What is it that constitutes an effective practice program? I’m specifically meaning in the context of adult students who might already have some musical knowledge and (maybe) play another kind of instrument (maybe not).

I’m not actively involved in teaching whistle and, many years down the whistling path, it isn’t so instinctively obvious to me what might be most helpful to new students of the instrument who are hoping to make rapid progress. Since someone asked me this very question today, I thought there was only one thing to do, and that of course is to turn to the erudite members of this board for their wise and considered opinions. :slight_smile:

Thanks to you all in advance!

Mick

  1. Learn some tunes (preferably from a person or recording).

  2. Play the tunes slowly and thoughtfully…as slowly as you need to not make too many mistakes.

  3. Use a metronome! This is tedious, but learning to play in strict time will make your playing sound better quicker than any other single aspect. It will also facilitate good crisp sounding ornaments later on.

  4. Have someone knowledgable show you exactly how to do cuts, strikes (taps), and rolls. Try it a few times till you’ve more/less got the idea, and then forget about it. Once in your head they (the ornaments) will start to sneak back out into your playing on their own as you get better.

  5. This is almost the most important thing!: When you feel like you’re not making any progress, and are about to “give up”, don’t! You’re probably just about off a plateau and in the next few days will suddenly discover you’ve gotten better over night. This has happened so many times to me that when I get that “geeze, I’m just not progressing much” feeling, I get excited because I know I’m almost “over the hump”. <— I don’t know if that makes sense to anyone else…

I agree totally with everything Bretton suggested. (How’s that for kissing up?) I’d add that putting in time on tunes you know well for disciplining your timing, smoothness, polish, as it were. Also devote time to practicing new tunes. Besides adding to you repetoire, it keeps the interest up and gives you something to note your progress on.

Play a variety of types of tunes; jigs, reels, slow airs, etc. Work on playing slowly enough to play correctly, but also push yourself to go just a little faster after you’re well warmed up.

Recording your playing and listening with a critical ear is also very helpful. It will surprise you in good and bad ways.

Work on learning tunes that you like to hear, rather than on tunes that don’t excite you. I.e., make it fun.
(You’ve been quiet lately, Mick. Glad to see you’re still in circulation.)
Tony

I come from a formal music background (not only classical, but some of that, certainly), and that shows in my practicing, but I think there’s something to it even for just playing trad. So here’s some of the things that are a little beyond the “pick up the whistle and work on tunes” sort of practicing.

First, schedule. You don’t want practicing to be so in the way it’s a chore, but you don’t want to leave it squeezed in around everything else, either. The amount of time you practice is a function of how you learn, how well you play, and how much spare time you have, but regularity will help things come together quicker than they otherwise would.

Second, warm up. Don’t jump right into playing tunes, especially at speed. Take the time to get used to the instrument again. Working on tone is a good way to do this, and you can squeeze working on breathing in as well. (How many people concentrate on their tone at all? It’s not just the instrument making a particular tone! Especially with the low whistle or flute.) I tend to start out with long tones and scales and arpeggios, but that’s probably a bit of my classical background coming through; starting with airs would work similarly, but concentrate on clean tone and breathing, rather than listening to the melody on the outside. (More about that later.)

Repeat. It’s how our brains work; a sure way to teach your hands and mouth and lungs and brain to work together without having to consciously coordinate movement is to do it over and over. Don’t jump along to the next tune when this one gets passable; certainly that’s a sign that you can start on something else, but get a tune perfect. Come back to old “simple” tunes later on and see what you can do with them.

Mix it up. Too much repetition gets stale, and people do reach plateaus, so you need to learn to recognize when you’re not progressing because you’re not progressing, and leave a bit alone for a while. Work on something else; pick up the low whistle if you’re stuck on the high, or vice versa. Back when I was playing the bass for a living, I got a little burned out gearing up for one concert and put the bass down for a week after it was over; when I returned to it, the solo work I’d been working on seemed so much easier.

Listen critically. With catchy tunes like we tend to play, it’s easy to start listening from the outside, like an audience member would, at the shape of the tune or the ornaments you played before – or, at the flub four bars back. Instead, get into the sound, feel it as though you’re producing it (you are!) rather than listening to it come out. This is always disappointing when you start, but it’s worth it in the long run.

Work from the end. Ever notice that the weakest part of a tune you’re learning always seems to be the end? That’s because when we make a mistake, we go back to the beginning of a section or tune. Try learning a tune from the end sometime. First the last two bars, then the last four, then the last eight, and so on, until you’ve got the whole tune down.

Move. Change the way you play; if you usually practice standing, try sitting for a while, or vice versa. If you usually play in the bathroom or garage to get that rich sound, go to a carpet-filled rec room with an uncomfortably dead sound. If you usually play in a dead room, go to a live one. (I’d recommend usually playing in a dead room; they’re considerably more honest.)

Have downtime. Sometimes, even when you’re working on getting a set down for a gig this weekend!, it’s good to take a bit of time at the end of a practice session (they have ends, since you schedule!) and just play what you want to play. My usual playing is all trad, so when I want to wind down I’ll try playing jazz standards or passages from Baroque music and so on.

Get feedback. The best feedback is a teacher, even if it’s a once-every-six-months lesson. It doesn’t necessarily have to be a whistle teacher; obviously a flute or UP player could help a lot, but a fiddler could help too because they know how it’s sppposed to sound. It doesn’t have to be a paid teacher/student deal either; sit down with a friend that plays and go over each other’s playing. And record yourself and keep the recordings! Go over them right away to hear how you sound out in front, a day or a week later to hear things you didn’t know you played, and months later to judge how you’ve improved (and if you still have some of the same problems to work on!).

Lastly, have fun and work hard. It’s all about balance between the two. Practicing isn’t always fun because there’ll be tough sections to get through and bad days and so on, but never let it all be miserable work, either. :slight_smile:

(Wow, that was long. Sorry about that.)

    -Rich

On 2001-07-31 16:19, Bretton wrote:

  1. Learn some tunes (preferably from a person or recording).

  2. Play the tunes slowly and thoughtfully…as slowly as you need to not make too many mistakes.

  3. Use a metronome! This is tedious, but learning to play in strict time will make your playing sound better quicker than any other single aspect. It will also facilitate good crisp sounding ornaments later on.

  4. Have someone knowledgable show you exactly how to do cuts, strikes (taps), and rolls. Try it a few times till you’ve more/less got the idea, and then forget about it. Once in your head they (the ornaments) will start to sneak back out into your playing on their own as you get better.

  5. This is almost the most important thing!: When you feel like you’re not making any progress, and are about to “give up”, don’t! You’re probably just about off a plateau and in the next few days will suddenly discover you’ve gotten better over night. This has happened so many times to me that when I get that “geeze, I’m just not progressing much” feeling, I get excited because I know I’m almost “over the hump”. <— I don’t know if that makes sense to anyone else…

Since I’m new at the whistle these points really interest me. Just a little I’d like to add… Besides listening to CDs, I’ve gone through hundreds of tunes online, and through dozens of books offline, to find music I enjoy listening to and playing. It’s always more fun when you can really get into the songs. The selections I’ve chosen have enough feeling, variety and simplicity that I have not had to worry about making enough progress to stay interested–the music and the instrument are too exciting to put down.

Dave

All very good ideas!
Most of my adult students cannot/do not make the time to practice every day as they think they need to sit down for 1/2 or 1 hour every day. In a busy adult’s schedule this can be daunting. I tell my students that I would rather them play 5 minutes 2 or 3 times a day rather than 1 hour once a day (which usually means one hour once a week.)
Don’t think of it as “practice” (work) think of it as “playing” (fun) Before they know it the 5 minutes stretches into 10 or 20. I suggest they keep a whistle on the coffee table where they can see it!
A lot of adult beginners unfortunately have hang-ups from early experiences with teachers (remember the choir teacher in grade 4 who told you to just mouth the words because you were tone deaf?) and so they need to think of learning music as fun not work! Keep things simple and short at first and build on successes…baby steps work best. Good luck!
Sue

The most important thing for new whistlers who are experienced on other woodwind instruments is DON’T TONGUE. Draw a big slur across the top of each line if you use sheet music. Nothing grates more at a traditional session that a whistler tonguing every note.

I structure my practise as follows - practise ornaments at the start of each session, then play some familiar tunes slowly, then some quicker tunes and finally move on to learning some new tunes.

When I first started playing the whistle I found this online tutorial to be very helpful: http://www.sligo-man.com/Whistle/ . The lessons on this site go over lots of basics, like the importance of listening, slurring, and phrasing, with some nice exercises to get a beginner started.

Dave

[ This Message was edited by: DaveO on 2001-08-01 00:00 ]

1)Have fun
2)Have fun
3)Have fun


Some of the other posters have given some great advice, but they make this all sound like a lot of boring work. It IS work, but needs to be enjoyable.
Some would disagree, but I think learning to read music is very valuable.
So is playing by ear!! Try playing tunes you already know very well-- these won’t necessarily be Celtic trad. TV commercials and theme songs are fun. Childrens’ songs, folk songs. You already have these in your head-- let’em out through your whistle. You may need to discover some half hole fingerings for G#, etc, but that’s useful too.

On 2001-07-31 19:11, Champ wrote:
The most important thing for new whistlers who are experienced on other woodwind instruments is DON’T TONGUE. Draw a big slur across the top of each line if you use sheet music. Nothing grates more at a traditional session that a whistler tonguing every note.

So just for curiosity’s sake..when is a proper time to learn tounging? To this day, I still struggle with proper technique on several tunes. Especially double tounging on pieces like Langstrom’s Pony.

I tend to tounge in faster passages to help separate the notes, and over all it gives the notes a cleaner sound. Would you have a recommendation as to a good way to accentuate individual notes that doesn’t use ornamentation, but works as well?

Thanks!

Bri~

The tutorial at sligo-man looks an awful lot like the one at http://www.Sessioneer.com
Probably best to go to the original source.
jb

Of course the tongueing question is not as black & white as it’s often portrayed. Tongueing definitely has a place in Irish whistle music - the great players do it all the time, just listen to Mary Bergin for example - the real question is when to tongue (which I won’t try to answer here)!

But I agree that indiscriminate use of tongueing (as someone with a recorder background might do) is way out when playing Irish whistle music.

Cheers,
Jens

I have looked at alot of tutorials, L.E. McCulloghs, The COmplete Irish Tinwhistle (Not a good one in my opinion) and several online and they all lack one thing, instruction on breathing, not just when but HOW to, and since it is a wind instrument we are talking about I think it is one of the most important things you can learn. If not for some of the threads here I would never have learned to use my diaphragm to breath when playing.

I know this is getting very far away from Mick’s original question, but…

On 2001-08-01 08:23, Brian Lee wrote:
So just for curiosity’s sake..when is a proper time to learn tounging?

Tounging (rhymes with lounging) is a very esoteric technique best left alone until you’ve published your first couple of CDs. :slight_smile:

Seriously though Brian, I’m puzzled by your saying you have trouble with double-tonguing in jigs, and then that you tongue every note in fast passages to give a cleaner sound. This seems to be contradictory, or or am I misreading you?

Since Jens mentioned Mary Bergin: for jigs, the basic tonguing pattern for unornamented passages recommended by Mary (and by sundry lesser authorities), is to tongue the 2nd and 3rd notes of each group of three eighth-notes. This means not tonguing the first note in the group. She refers to this technique as “hah-tuh-tuh, hah-tuh-tuh”.

This really helps you punch out a good jig rhythm, making it easier to shorten the second note in the group of three.

More generally, I completely agree with Jens that the tonguing issue is less straightforward than saying “don’t”. What’s important is getting the right rhythm, and when a beginner tongues all over the place it makes the fact that he/she hasn’t got the rhythm right painfully obvious.

This is why getting rid of all tonguing is a very good exercise for beginners – to break the habit. They can then think about putting it back in in places where it will help the rhythm, as in the jig pattern. This might be a good thing to recommend as a daily exercise, Mick.

On 2001-08-01 08:42, brownja wrote:
The tutorial at sligo-man looks an awful lot like the one at > http://www.Sessioneer.com >
Probably best to go to the original source.
jb

FYI:

JB, This struck me as curious, so I sent an email to the site owner. He has admitted his oversight in not crediting Mike Simpson at Sessioneer, and said he will rectify the situation.
S

Seriously though Brian, I’m puzzled by your saying you have trouble with double-tonguing in jigs, and then that you tongue every note in fast passages to give a cleaner sound. This seems to be contradictory, or or am I misreading you?

Hi Stevie,

I guess I should have been more specific, and again not to detract from the overall topic TOO far here :slight_smile: but I don’t think I tounge every note in jigs, and I believe I have worked out the tounging of that last two notes in jigs etc.

I guess I struggle with fast double and triple tounging. Sometimes I wonder if a different type of ornamentation such as a roll would work better to break up a note sounded three times rapidly for example.

Anyway, the logistics of this probably belng in a new thread.

Slán!

Brian~

I’ve ‘studied’ a few instruments (piano as a child, hammered dulcimer as an adult) and my best teachers gave the same advice as what is being discussed here. Some other things I’ve been taught:

When you’re just starting out with an instrument, you try to learn too much too fast. Try every week to play EVERY tune you know and improve on your comfort level with them, commit ONE tune to memory, add ONE new tune to your practice repetoire, add or change ornamentation in ONE tune you know well.

Have your instrument out and available to play. (I can’t carry my HD around, but it’s always set up where I can pass it and take a moment to play a tune. I have one whistle in my handbag, and I play it in the parking lot before going into work, in traffic jams, etc)

Play WITH people, even if you’re not “good”. You’ll be better than anyone who WON’T play with other people. Find a mentor, tutor, or instructor, who can encourage you and maybe show you some neat little twist on a phrase.

Don’t do ‘exercises’. Exercises are boring. Play tunes with phrases that do the same thing.


Now, as a recorder player, trying to swap over to the whistle, I have to thank every person who reminds me about plateaus, not giving up, and having fun. I hit my first hard plateau just after swearing off the recorder and vowing to play only the whistle, and it took a good month before I didn’t have to think about what instrument I was playing as I fingered. I hit another plateau (current) as I try to change my tonguing/slurring. Jigs are most problematical, as I have been doing tongue-slur-slur tongue-slur-slur for as long as I can remember playing ANY wind instrument.

Heck, this isn’t a plateau, this is a major, unchecked backslide. I can’t play jigs at all right now, it seems, even at the slowest speed. Perhaps I’ll try to rewrite them with prominent slurs and marks for tonguing.

Thanks for all the suggestions!

“I can’t play jigs at all right now, it seems, even at the slowest speed.”

You might consider getting software, such as SlowSpeed CD Transcriber, (ronimusic.com) to play your cd at really slow speed and play along with that. Bump the speed up gradually as you get comfortable. If you hang right with the cd music, you’ll get the rhythm. Good luck,
Tony

What’s most important to me is having fun with my whistle! Period!

Thank you one and all for your (sometimes lengthy!) responses. I knew you could be relied on! :slight_smile:

As you have pointed out, there are so many things to think about, and to work at, to “get it right”, when it comes to playing any musical instrument; the whistle is no different to any other in this respect. For me, the fun and the consoling meditative aspects of playing have always been the most important ones. If playing ever becomes a chore I will just find something else to do…

My personal feeling is that if you are drawn to play an instrument, you will learn to play it, no matter what anyone thinks you should be doing with regard to “effective practice”. You will learn simply through the power of wanting to do so. And the joy of music is that you never finish learning; there is no end to it; there is always something new to keep you going. :slight_smile:

Okay, back to the shadows now! hehehe.

Mick