What does it take to be a Mary Bergin, Paddy Moloney, Joannie Madden etc???
What do you guys think that it takes? Is it practice, practice, practice…or is it just talent - or a combination of both?
Can anyone be that good? I’d really love to know. I’ve been playing for many years and , while I am a mediocure whistle player - I can’t hold a candle to these guys.
It can be frustrating at times!! 
Cheers 
Gerry
It doesnt hurt to be born into a family where traditional Irish music is like breathing! These people were humming tunes in the womb. To top it off, they have the talent, ability, dedication and the right circumstances…add this all up and you get Mary, Paddy, Joanie etc.
All we “foreigners” can do is listen, practice, listen, practice & listen some more. Good luck!
Sue
On 2001-09-02 22:14, WhistlingGypsy wrote:
What does it take to be a Mary Bergin, Paddy Moloney, Joannie Madden etc???What do you guys think that it takes? Is it practice, practice, practice…or is it just talent - or a combination of both?
This could be the nature v. nurture argument. I think talent may play some part; practice is a definite; exposure is a must. You have to remember that players such as Maloney and Bergin began playing when they were embryos. They were exposed at very early ages and grew up in the trad. music culture. I don’t think that necessarily means if you didn’t start young you don’t have a chance though. We just have to work harder. What’s helped me the most (besides practicing until my hands cramp) is to listen, listen, listen.
When all that’s said and done, remember that you are probably your own worst critic
Teri
Enjoy the scenery and try not to think too much about the destination.Whistle playing is a great excersise in living life in the present moment. Mike
I keep meeting ten-year-old children
who can play Irish whistle music better than I can. It certainly helps to start
playing as a fetus, as has been observed
above. But you know, people have different
talents. I’m never going to be a technically
swift player of jigs and reels, probably,
but I do have my moments where I’m
playing music I love to the delight of
listeners. Good enough for me.
Jim and Mike–Right on! I’ll probably never be as good as I want, partly because there are too many other things I want to accomplish as well and there are only so many hours in the day. But that doesn’t keep me from enjoying it.
Tom
Thanks for the replies.
Don’t get me wrong - I really enjoy playing the whistle, but I guess I find it frustrating when I am pushing myself to be better and it doesn’t seem to be happening fast enough.
Anyhow I’ll keep whistling one way or another.
Cheers:-)
Gerry
This is interesting..
Music, for me, was definitely a learned talent – yes some people are naturals, but it took me about three years of high school band to even read music and play with a confidence level sufficient for public performance. Since the time I started music in general (now about 14 years ago), and the time I started playing whistle (about 1 year ago), I found it quite easy to actually play the instrument, and somewhat easy to learn the intricacies, however – an outside opinion is always best.
Here’s what I think it takes:
Yes, it does take TONS of practice. When I started all I did was long-tones for hours each day to improve my tone quality on each note and breath control on the whistle.
Lots of listening to other music… Flook, Chieftans, and Great Big Sea were large influences in me wanting to learn to play in the first place. Try to imitate what you hear.
Lessons – take at least 3 lessons from someone who is very proficient in whistle playing. I never thought I needed them, but when I went, I found out that I was tonging too much and I could hear the pitch of my whistle a bit better in session by playing slightly to one side of my mouth.
Minimal music background – you should know or learn how to read music. Also, you should be very very comfortable with the 4 basical whistle scales (D, F, G, and B) and arpeggio’s. When you session or play, you’ll need to be able to recognize the scale being used and to improvise within that scale.
Performance – Lots of places do half-speed sessions… great for learning to improvise and to learn tunes in general. Play as much as you can as often as possible.
These are, of course, just my thoughts and opinions based on playing tradition orchestral instruments and, as I’ve been able to tell so far, they’ve applied to my whistle playing as well.
How’s that for long winded?
“also, you should be very very comfortable with the 4 basical whistle scales (D, F, G, and B) and arpeggio’s.”
ummm… F and B ??? I know D, G, and A, but didn’t realize there was much call for the keys F and B.
-brett
[ This Message was edited by: Bretton on 2001-09-03 21:59 ]
Ack – that should be E, not F.. On a D whistle, the B scale isn’t used too much, just because of the awkwardness of it relative to the pitch of the whistle, but proficiency in it doesn’t hurt.
With an A scale on a D whistle – that’s interesting.. I normally don’t practice major scales that require a half-hole fingering… do you use it often?
[ This Message was edited by: Wynder on 2001-09-03 22:04 ]
Lessons – take at least 3 lessons from someone who is very proficient in whistle playing. I never thought I needed them, but when I went, I found out that I was tonging too much and I could hear the pitch of my whistle a bit better in session by playing slightly to one side of my mouth.
- Minimal music background – you should know or learn how to read music. Also, you should be very very comfortable with the 4 basical whistle scales (D, F, G, and B) and arpeggio’s. When you session or play, you’ll need to be able to recognize the scale being used and to improvise within that scale.
Now you’re talking !!! That’s what I was looking for - some practical advise on how to move on
I have never taken a whistle lesson in my life, if you don’t count playing in the school band when I was 10 years old (33 years ago). Also I can play very well in D and G on the D whistle but can’t or won’t play in A (I pick up my A whistle when a tune is being played in A). I know how but just have never practiced so I’m not comfortable with it.
Also, I have no idea what tongueing, crans, rolls etc. are, but apparently I do all of these things when I play. I am teaching myself how to read music, but it is a slow process, as I tend to stick with the stuff I know as opposed to learning new pieces.
I have decided to take lessons, thanks to your input, and look forward to seeing the progress. Like you I am proficient on the whistle and never thought of taking lessons but it makes sense if I want to improve that I should take some.
I’ll post my progress here after a few lessons.
Thanks a lot Wynder,
Cheers
Gerry
[ This Message was edited by: WhistlingGypsy on 2001-09-04 08:42 ]
Gerry,
Have you looked over at Brother Steve’s website. He’s got all kinds of techincal know-how written out.
http://www.rogermillington.com/siamsa/brosteve/
Peace,
Erik
Good advice Wynder.A self taught musician will always have a fool for a teacher which is all the more reason to go to sessions…an excellent bouzouki player named Bob once commented during an incredible session in Vienna that the session is the university for learning celtic music. 
Mike
Talent vs hard work … talent does play a role, no doubt, but I always thought the hard work was the bigger part of it. I’ve developed a skill at writing music out by ear which has impressed lots of music majors. They say I’m talented, but I remember putting in tons of time/effort developing this skill, and can’t help but think that a lot more people would be able to do it if they put in the same effort. I’ve always said I don’t believe so much in talent as in obsession.
A famous author once compared talent - at almost anything - to a knife that most everybody is born with. Some are born with a huge machete, others with a tiny scalpel. But no matter what the size of your knife, it always starts out dull, and you have to sharpen it. And you can get that scalpel razor-sharp, if you keep at it. And if you don’t put in the work, your machete will be as dull as a club and won’t ever be able to cut anything.
Talent vs hard work … talent does play a role, no doubt, but I always thought the hard work was the bigger part of it. I’ve developed a skill at writing music out by ear which has impressed lots of music majors. They say I’m talented, but I remember putting in tons of time/effort developing this skill, and can’t help but think that a lot more people would be able to do it if they put in the same effort. I’ve always said I don’t believe so much in talent as in obsession.
That is certainly true. I guess you can compare it to Luck. I don’t believe in luck as such - LUCK stands for ‘Labouring Under Correct Knowledge’ - and it is usually people who are willing to do what it takes that end up lucky. The same can probably be said for Talent…we probably all have it to some degree or other but it’s how we use it that makes the difference.
Of course there are exceptions to any rule!
Cheers
Gerry
I think practice is definitely an important factor. E. J. Jones, from Clandestine, is a world champion piper, yet he still practices 2 to 3 hours per day.
(Oops. Double post.)
[ This Message was edited by: ThorntonRose on 2001-09-05 08:05 ]
On 2001-09-05 08:04, ThorntonRose wrote:
I think practice is definitely an important factor. E. J. Jones, from Clandestine, is a world champion piper, yet he still practices 2 to 3 hours per day.
How does he get away with so little time at that level? I would have expected 6 hours or more. The must be a really high level of natural tallent there.
Gerry,
Lots of good advice so far, but in addition to talent and practice, there is one more important factor …
FUN..
The 10 year old plays well because his practice isn’t work, its play, its fun, it makes his heart happy.
The kid that walks around playing the same tune over and over and over and over again is not “practicing” - he’s enchanted with the tune. (Of course he may also be enjoying driving his parents batty by playing the same tune 58 time in a row, but if so, he’s still playing for fun.)
Sessions are the university of celtic music, partly because you get to learn all sorts of new tunes, techniques, tones, timings. But equally important is that sessions are where a bunch of folks sit around playing to just enjoy the music. Its not a performance, its not drills, its just fun.
So how can I enjoy the music more? One way I’ve found is to learn more about it. Learn to hear more in each tune. A good book and CD combination for this is Chris Smith’s book, Celtic Back-up for the Instrumentalist . (If you search the posts you’ll find a short review of this book). Learning Modes, harmonies, drones, counter melodies, rhythms lets you hear and enjoy more in the music. The CD’s 99 tracks demonstrate most of the lessons in the book, which actually includes listening exercises. All so you can hear more in the music.
So my 2 cents is:
Play for yourself for fun.
Play with others for fun.
Learn more about how much fun this music is.
In the end its all to help you …
On 2001-09-02 22:14, WhistlingGypsy wrote:
What does it take to be a Mary Bergin, Paddy Moloney, Joannie Madden etc???What do you guys think that it takes? Is it practice, practice, practice…or is it just talent - or a combination of both?
Can anyone be that good? I’d really love to know. I’ve been playing for many years and , while I am a mediocure whistle player - I can’t hold a candle to these guys.
It can be frustrating at times!! >
Cheers >
Gerry
Gee whiz! And I only wanted to borrow Mick Woodruff for a few hours just to kneel at the feet of a master, then shake all his secrets out of him! I think, no matter how much we practice, we tend to compare our own playing and end up feeling inadequate as whistlers. I know that by listening to their playing, I’m inspired to practice more, and to learn as much as I can. The more I play, the more I practice, the more facinating and the more sophisticated the whistle becomes. Because of my asthma, I never know how well I’ll be able to play from day to day, because I never know how well I can breathe. I’m basically just happy being the only whistler in my area. Then again, for all my practicing, I’ll still plug people into Mick’s website so tehy can hear a real whistler! I’d like to think I have a feel for music, and I think trying to master an instrument I hate is basically self-sabatoge! I’m whistle nuts, truly whistle nuts, and that helps, along with practicing six hours a day! There are times when I wish I could have been born a whistle idiot savant, but that’s fruitless, so I just practice!
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[ This Message was edited by: Anna Martinez on 2001-09-06 14:21 ]