Am I a musician...yet?

Whistle
1

Over the weekend, I was with my Middle Eastern dance troupe and the musicians we dance with. Of course, the party quickly turned into a jam session, complete with Indian harmonium, tablas, an assortment of strings (lute, mando, guitar), many bendhirs, etc. I TRIED to play along a bit with my whistles, but I was in way over my head–and Middle Eastern music is tough to play on these Western-sounding whistles, at least for a beginner like me. Luckily, I was able to join in with my zills (finger cymbals) and I’d received a crash course in bendhir, so that was OK…

Normally, I am difficult to intimidate and I have almost no shyness, but I felt so severely outclassed! They were all very encouraging and wanted me to play a whistle solo and then jam with me, but I couldn’t do it. I’ve been playing whistle for over a year now, and I’ve played in public, busking, but around these VERY accomplished musicians, I felt like a real idiot. I feel like, because I only play the whistle, which is so EASY to play on a basic level, that I am not a “real” musician, and I don’t belong in a jam. And then everyone else kept picking up different instruments, switching from flute to guitar to drum without blinking. Needless to say, I am about 10 years from being able to do that, if ever!

I guess, since there’s so many different levels of musical skill & experience here on this board, I’m just curious as to how others feel. Do you feel like “a musician?” If so, how long did that take? I just can’t get over that feeling that I am a spy in the house of music!

2

For my money, if you play -especially on a regular basis, and in public- you’re a musician. To some, the term implies that you make a living at it. I don’t agree with that, but, as you illustrated, there are degrees of accomplishment. To play with a Middle Eastern ensemble would require instruments suited for the purpose, or a long stint at getting your half-holing down pat in order to tackle Arabic, etc., modes on a whistle.

I don’t know what kind of music you play, but I’m pretty sure that if you’ve developed some skill at ITM, a Middle Eastern musician would have similar trouble. They are different idioms, after all. :slight_smile:

3

I’ll let you into a secret: we all get that feeling from time to time. There isn’t a musician in the world, no matter how accomplished, that hasn’t met another musician who made them feel totally outclassed - as if they were floundering in comparison. And if they haven’t had this experience, either it’s because they refuse to admit the truth, or it’s only a matter of time before they do meet such a musician.

So enjoy, learn from every experience, don’t be discouraged. As to whether you’re a musician, don’t worry about bestowing the title on yourself. Others will.

4

Yep. Been there. I’ve found that so far if I play my best, my way, then people like it. So far that is.

5

Well, lets see here:
I have been playing for six months and am accomplished enough to play the occasional song at my church- do I feel like a musician? yes
Would I continue to feel like a musician if Mary Bergin walked into the room? no
(would I want to go bury my whistles? yes)

You must think like this: “ok, I cant play that, so, what can I do in order to learn from this experience?”

Time spent around better musicians in different musical settings are oportunities for learning new techniques for using your instrument

6

Kar,

Stevie makes a really good point, you probably sound a hell of a lot better to others than you do to yourself. Just a couple of days ago, I went into the studio and was not at all happy with what I had prepared nor the way I was playing it. Guess what: the dude loved it. Just what he wanted, he said.

Point is (not self aggrandizement) that you might imagine that you need to sound like the Paganini of the Pennywhistle before others will want to hear you, not needed! Remember, you can get pretty damn good before you get great and pretty good is always good. Forget what you want to call yourself, just have confidence and pride in your playing. If you want a title, just call yourself a player and leave it at that.

PC

PS–Don’t forget that it took some cojones to even try to play with these guys. Rock on, dude.

7

Hold your head high Kar. Nothing wrong with being a whistle player.

As to the eastern music issues; it can be hard to play along with wierd keys.

You might try contacting Ronaldo Reyburn. He’s been experimenting with some wierd near-eastern or oriental keys of whistle.

His website is reyburnlowwhistles.com I believe

He makes great tooters and is a wonderful guy to work with.

Cheers

Doc

8

You know, Kar, the hard part is just the definition without the use of adjectives. My first impulse is to turn around and rhetorically ask: are you a highly skilled, technically trained performer with years of experience and a music degree to boot? That answer may be no. But you love music, are working to improve yourself and want to play with others…that’s pretty much a musician.

Interestingly enough, there are a whole class of musicians (classical) with many of the characteristics of the former description who might feel as lost in a jam session and many of the latter who would not!! Different skills.

With the experience of the former, you might have found a way to understand the scales and tendencies of that troupe, and realized that you might need a lot of half-holing or a special whistle to play in the group. But with the zeal of the latter, you would try anyway!!

Even without all the training though, you have to get comfortable enough on your instrument to start being able to join in and what BSteve said about intimidation is right on. I think of it as a universal: there is always somebody stronger, prettier, fatter, skinnier, more well-read , etc etc out there and the best way to deal with this and appreciate yourself and not worry about the other people..

Also, practicing at home versus joining in with others can lead to what I call “session shellshock,” where suddenly you can’t do anything, remember anything and feel basically crippled despite all your practice. That is more psychological and involves finding the place in your head that will free up the fingers! That’s different than honestly not knowing what the heck the melody, rhythm and harmony are up to in a given style. When I joke about the distraction of memorizing tune names, that’s what I mean, that the intellectual act of thinking of a tunes name might not help you actually remember how to play the tune. I believe its a different part of the brain being used unless you have some kind of linkage set up.

One other reflection is that because whistle is a such an easy instrument to intially play, as opposed to the physical awkwardness of beginning violin, or guitar etc. that you can kind of seem precocious in playing but not necessarily have as much background musical knowledge attained in lessons as those who take longer to play their instrument in public. In other words, a fiddler might wait longer before playing on the park bench but have learned lots of theory etc in the course of studying.

9

oh yes, I almost forgot.
You cant legitimity call yourself a “spy in the house of music” before you have played several itrad slip jigs in order to open a vault door, all while suspended upside down from the ceiling with the use of bungee cords and making sure the "ambient mosture from your lungs doesnt drip down upon the floor, setting off the hair trigger pressure sensers :stuck_out_tongue: :stuck_out_tongue: :stuck_out_tongue:

10

I’d never use the term musician to describe myself. I do tell people I play the whistle, but if they take it further I specify that I play it very poorly.

11

Kar, a year is very little time. I guess some people can master anything in that much time, depending on existing talent or previous musical experience, but most of us should not have high expectations of playing in a jam session a mere year after picking up an instrument.

I been playing box almost 3 years now, and I certainly wouldn’t call myself a musician at all. It’s not a matter of whether or not I play it in public, or professionally; the term “musician” implies a certain degree of technical competence which I am still developing.

IOW, you’re probably not there after a year of playing, but you’re not supposed to be and shouldn’t feel bad about it. --Caj

12

:confused: :confused: :confused:

Suppose someone gets really enthused by a trad CD and decides that he wants to take up the button accordion, so he can be like one of the people on that CD. He has no instrument and no money to spare, so he starts saving up his pennies, hoping to afford a B/C box in about half a year. Until then he scours the Web for information, drools at pretty pictures of Castagnaris, reads books. There are no sessions near where he lives, nobody to lend him a box in the mean time, nobody to give him lessons. He has no musical experience and doesn’t know where to start.

By this definition, this fellow is already a musician. He loves the music, he’s working to improve himself (indeed he is willing to eat ramen for half a year in a quest to become a box player, and a good one) and he dreams of playing in a session and sounding like those CD guys.

Caj

13

I am an artist.

I am a painter.

I am dancer in the dark.

I am a xylophone player.

I am a whistle player, whistler, whistlist.

I am a poet.

I am a singer.

I am a Geisha girl.

I am a drama queen (yes, that’s an art).

I am clinically insane.

Point is, if you feel it, you are. Regardless of skill/ability.

There are plenty of ‘musicians’ who have amazing technical ‘skill’, but they lack a certain something that is really what counts, I can’t explain it but you know what I mean.

14

Some time back, someone used the following definition on this board.

“If you can make any sound at all, you are a musician.
If you like the sound you make, you are a good musician.
If anyone else likes the sound you make, you are a great musician.”

It may sound flippant, but the idea is to decide if you are trying to be a professional or are playing for the joy of it and the love of the music.

15

I dunno then Caj, except to add adjectives, like I said. Trained musician. Beginning musician. Amateur musician.

As a trained musician, when I see the hunger and enthusiasm of beginners to play, I want to encourage it in any way possible. Perhaps I am too charitable with the noun… but anything else might be a bit dismissive.

I have always been fascinated by people who love music a lot but are content to spin cds and won’t even try to play or sing. Others have the will to take their hands to it, and that’s precious. Wouldn’t you consider the latter to be musicians, more than music lovers, like the former?

I never want to be in the position of discouraging anyone to play by hierarchical jargon etc. and lacking a guild system with apprentices and all…the semantic issue takes over, I guess.

But I know that, after playing for so many years, there is another way to state the word Musician, as an honorable title earned with years and years of commitment and training. Maybe that’s closer to your definition.

16

My example, tho, was one of the former: someone without an instrument, who doesn’t play an instrument, who wants to have one and wants to learn to play one some time in the future. That’s not really a musician. Not yet, at least.

Likewise, someone in high school who has every intention of going to college next year is not yet a “college student,” however enthused he or she may be about doing it.

Nor do I think it would discourage a beginner to reserve the word “musician” for someone who can and does play beyond a certain degree. If anything would discourage a newbie, it would be the ego-smashing time bomb of an unrealistic goal or perception of oneself, e.g. as an “accordion player” after only a month of practicing the accordion.[/i]

17

Quote @ The Weekenders

I have always been fascinated by people who love music a lot but are content to spin cds and won’t even try to play or sing. Others have the will to take their hands to it, and that’s precious. Wouldn’t you consider the latter to be musicians, more than music lovers, like the former?

I think turntables(isn’t that what DJs use?) are instruments. So is the voice.

Quote@Caj

Likewise, someone in high school who has every intention of going to college next year is not yet a “college student,” however enthused he or she may be about doing it.

I don’t like that comparison. Of course if you’re not in college, you’re not in college. But on being a ‘musician’, it’s much more subjective and everybody has their own way to describe it.

Anyway trying to meticulously label everybody and everything comes down to just being rather pointless.

18

OK, but so is the desire to label oneself. If you want to consider yourself a “musician” but aren’t sure about your ability to play a musical instrument, what does it change if you decide to give yourself that title or not?

Whatever it really means, we see the term as carrying a connotation of ability beyond a certain level. That’s why the subject header says what it says. That’s why the original poster has doubts about being a “musician” after an unsettling experience (which, I’ll pipe in, we all have.) And that’s why everyone is being reassuring—except me, of course, who is being a bit of a pain. :smiling_imp:

If the word is so meaningless that the people who applaud at a sesssion are all musicians by virtue of clapping their hands, then it really shouldn’t matter to anyone who is one and who isn’t; nor would it be negative to say someone isn’t one. After all, I don’t mind being told that I am not a QPRNF and never will be.

19

It is this simple,
1 If you can make any sort of ungodly noise at all you are a musician
2 If you can play music that is coherant and you enjoy it, then you are a good musician.
3 If you can play music that other people enjoy, you are a great musician.

Personally i am sitting on level 2, but to hell with everyone else…its all good fun :smiley:

20

Quote @ Caj

OK, but so is the desire to label oneself.

I never said it wasn’t. :wink: