Well, the hornpipes are definitely hornpipes, and I don’t see why the jigs shouldn’t be classified as jigs. Do you mean that a tune shouldn’t be classified as a jig if jigs weren’t danced to it? Even if you ignore the triple harp tradition (which survived but wasn’t very widespread in the twentieth century) dance tunes were still played on the pedal harp, and there were and are a lot of pedal harps in Wales. A lot of the basic melodies for cerdd dant are dance tunes (e.g., the ubiquitous Pwt ar y Bys.) So the eisteddfodau preserved a limited repertoire of dance tunes, but I would say that there are proportionately more airs in the Welsh tradition because a lot of tunes survived through singing rather than playing. The distinctive fiddling styles died out, but there were still people playing the fiddle in Wales, and I’m sure they played traditional tunes some of the time. The same with other popular instruments such as the squeezebox or harmonica.
I’m Welsh, Pitchfork. Did you see my earlier post?
Simon James accepts “Celt” as a self-designation. The Welsh are Celts because we call ourselves Celts, as do the Irish, Scottish, Bretons, Manx, Cornish. I think it’s comparable to referring to the Latin peoples. Incidentally, Welsh and Breton speakers can just about understand each other.
Andrew, my apologies for not noticing that. I should also state that I know next to nothing about traditional music in Wales and I didn’t mean to make any authoritative-sounding statements. I am aware that there are jigs, hornpipes, reels, etc. in abundance in Wales and a fiddle tradition that is experiencing a resurgence. However most of these tunes that I’ve heard had English names (though I wouldn’t doubt that there are plenty with Welsh names as well) and I wasn’t sure if these tunes sprang from a longstanding indigenous tradition or if they arose from outside influences during relatively more recent times via things like English country dances and considerable immigration from Ireland in the 19th century. When I mentioned tunes in manuscripts, I should have been more specific that I meant tunes that were likely played on Welsh pipes. The few bits of music that I’ve heard by people like Ceri Rhys Matthews & Jonathan Shorland sounded more like Breton gavottes if I recall correctly (it was a long time ago that I heard the album). Perhaps they played some hornpipes as well, but I can’t remember now.
Anyway, if this topic has done nothing else, it’s gotten me curious to go out and find some more Welsh music to listen to…Aside from the Super Furries, that is…
Yes, that’s true. I don’t take issue with the fact that the people who call themselves Celts today do so. I think the problem is that there is often a misunderstanding of the two distinct peoples that can have that name. The name that was given today’s Celts from the 18th century on was essentially used in reverse to create history. So the distinction needs to be made between the Ancient Celts and the Modern Celts, and all to often it isn’t.
I found a way to put my paper up online so anyone is welcome to download it, read it, argue with me, comment, or whatever. I would appreciate input. It’s here. the link should work, please let me know if it doesn’t.
Just read your paper–some very interesting ideas. However, I’d broaden your sources a bit, especially when looking at the linguistic aspects of the ideas of “Celticism.” There is evidence from surviving loan words from Gaulish Celtic (ie central European Celts) that relate directly to Irish and Welsh words. For example, the Gaulish name Deiotaros. Deio could relate to the Irish dia (god), the Welsh duw (god), the Gaulish devos (god). Taros could relate to the Welsh tarw (bull), the Irish tarbh (bull).
Another thing to keep in mind is that the central European tribes were completely crushed by the Romans, which explains why little to nothing remains of their language. These people were essentially Romanized to the point that their culture was eradicated.
Also, most sources I’ve read don’t suggest that Ireland was invaded en masse by Celtic tribes, but that the native inhabitants were conquered by a smaller, more superior fighting force. Intermingling by the original inhabitants and the new celts would have taken place, and it’s thought this is how the differences between the P-Celtic and Q-Celtic languages evolved. Take a look at Bernhard Maier’s “The Celts”–it’s a good source for information, although the translation from the original German is a tad dry.
All in all a good paper, but I’d suggest looking at other sources to tighten up your arguments.
The language of a tune title doesn’t indicate the origin of the tune in Wales any more than it does in Ireland. Welsh tune names are translated into English for the benefit of Welshless listeners, and English titles are translated into welsh.
There is a lot of reinvention going on these days, most of it very encouraging. But it does take place to the background of a genuine tradition. There have always been strong links between Britanny and Wales and there are many tunes common to Wales and Britanny–even the national anthems are the same.
There are many more triple harp players now. If you want to look further, most of the stuff released by Fflach Tradd is good listening. Llio Rhyderch’s first three CDs are superb, and Robin Huw Bowen’s CDs are very nice too, and CDs of Nansi Richards are easy to find nowadays–she was the one who preserved the triple harp as a living tradition. Sain release a wide range of stuff–you might try and find some cerdd dant/penillion singing, which is sublime at its best, but can be slushy at its worst.
Chapel and eisteddfod preserved the musical tradition, but limited it to certain forms and cultural settings. The modern WTM revivalists have a tendency to look down on chapel/eisteedfod/male voice choirs, but as far as I’m concerned, despite their faults, these are genuine traditions.
Very nicely done paper. I’d be interested in doing some further reading and tracking down Cunliffe’s book and a couple of the other sources listed in your bibliography. Wasn’t there something specific in one of those recent genetic studies that pointed to a distinct similarity in the DNA of people from Wales and the Basque Country? One of the more compelling linguistic theories about Basque is that it might be the last remaining vestage of pre-Indo-European languages. For whatever reason, the Basques resisted the language shifts going on around them while perhaps other people such as the pre-Roman Britons switched to languages that we would now define as Celtic/Brittonic. Given that there seems to be evidence of seagoing trade between the British Isles and several Western European coastal areas dating back to before Roman times, it seems like a distinct possibility.
the paper on Celtic genetics I found (and that is also cited by Bob Quinn) is available here as a pdf file. The actual genetics part got a bit intense for me, but the abstract and conclusion are worth reading (for the non-biologists or geneticists among us).
Culiffe’s book Facing the Ocean is worth looking at. It has a lot of information and the maps and illustrations are also helpful. As I’m revising my paper I think I may add a couple. He has written quite a number of other books which I didn’t have time to look at in the preparation of this draft, but hope to do so soon.
yes. the problem is when that assumption is taken to mean that the peoples who remained outside Roman influence or control were what was left of a culture that had once spread across Europe.
the problem with this theory is that a superior fighting force would be largely male. The men would marry women in the indigenious population, but while women mostly controlled the home, the children would be brought up primarily speaking the language of the mother (hence the phrase “mother tongue”) with a smattering of the father’s language. I don’t remember which of the books outlined this argument, and they’re all at school and I’m at home. it seemed to make sense to me though.
