Hi list,
I’m looking to buy a decent antique F flute, playable at modern pitch. Preferably with a few keys. Materials not important, flute may be in need of restoration, too. Let me know what you’ve got.
Cheers,
Gabriel
Same here, but I’m not a restorer and I’d prefer it to be in working order 
how much do you have to spend? 
Hi Steffen,
This German 6-key just appeared on eBay - ridiculously overpriced as usual from that regular seller… and on the face of it High Pitch - but measurements are a doubtful guide for F flutes, in some respects, cf what follows:
Here are some measurements from F flutes I have to hand:
All were measured excluding the crown-cap as per the eBay example, and with the slide (if any) fully closed for the SL.
HP = High Pitch (of some description - higher than A=445),
LP = Low Pitch (e.g. diapason normal, lower than A=440)
CP = Concert Pitch, c A=440.
All dimensions in mm
Flute Overall Length Sounding Length "C#-Eb Length"
(excl crown)
eBay flute ?470 415 -
Lafleur 1-key (no slide, HP) 487 425 214
Anon ?English 4-key (") 497 424 216
Anon German 4-key (slide, ?LP) 550 440 213
?Potter 6-key (slide, CP c 1/2 open) 496 428 212
RC&Co 8-key (slide, CP c 1/3-1/2 open 538 ("C" Foot!) 464 203
Pratten style body, HP slide closed!)
The German ?LP 4-key just about plays at A=440 fully closed - i.e. at much the same sounding length as the ?Potter does (add 10-15mm slide extension).
Now, re: the RC&Co, clearly the overall and sounding lengths are not comparable to the other short-foot flutes, but note the much shorter C#-Eb length; yet it still plays with very acceptable intonation at concert pitch with a normal slide extension - presumably the bigger bore and tone-holes of the Pratten-influenced design are significant here, and for fuller comparison one should perhaps include at least the embouchure to C# measurement…
Interestingly, benhall1 has a pair of Ebonite RC&Co F flutes - no slides, 5-keyers, HP. I can’t measure them, obviously, as they’re about 100 miles away - maybe Ben can oblige later? My wooden 8-keyer has exactly the same scaling - tone-hole distribution/sizing for the 6 open holes and is in tune with them with its slide closed, yet it plays very acceptably at A=440 with a 10-155mm slide extension. We tried putting mine’s wooden head on them with the slide opened, and guess what??? Fine at 440! Looks to me as though (at least in the late c19th/early C20th) RC&Co used the same scaling for both H and CP band instruments, just providing different heads! We actually discussed with Chris Wilkes the viability of adapting the heads of the Ebonite pair to give them tuning slides - decided against on balance as the walls are probably a bit thin and the cost excessive… But I think that quite often what makes these band flutes HP is not so much their body scaling and bore as their head length and whether or not it is adjustable!
So, the eBay flute I linked above is clearly significantly shorter than any of the others I’ve given data for and, even though it has a slide, probably isn’t worth consideration unless one wants a significantly HP F flute - but others with measurements within the ranges above might be worth considering if you’re prepared to make a slide for one that hasn’t got one but otherwise seems promising - which may widen your options, Steffen?
FWIW, when perusing eBay F flutes, if they are given an overall length less than 19"/485mm I pretty much automatically exclude them, but lengths in the 19.5-20"/490-450mm are worth consideration.
Steffen, if it is any use to you, I have the head, barrel and upper body of a probably English F flute, marked “Improved London F” - 3 keys on the extant body section, but lower body/foot are missing. FWIW, the embouchure to C# distance is rather less than that of my ?Potter. Head and barrel cracked, but it’s good quality work in fine cocus - a shame it lost its lower end! I can’t do anything with it (like make a new lower body/foot) bar cannibalise it. Let me know by pm or e-mail if you’re interested and we can sort something out - photos, whatever. (The 4-key HP anon ?English one is overhauled/restored and for sale, but doesn’t meet your criteria at all, and isn’t anything great even as what it is, so I wouldn’t recommned it as any kind of model, even if you wanted to play or make an HP flute!)
I can add another Harry Potter to the list (OK, it’s ‘Hy’) 36&38 West St, Charing Cross Road, London.
Can’t read what might be serial numbers
Additionally marked ‘3/2 C.O.L.E.R.F.’ and ‘F1’
three-piece, no tuning slide
5 pillar mounted keys
Overall length = 485
Sounding length = 426
C#-Eb = 208
Plays in tune for me at 440Hz
Embouchure is a bit roughly shaped but sounds nice IMHO (all newly restored, corked and padded, which helps)
PS. Jem, wouldn’t you place the F flutes in a slightly different category to some of the other military flutes as there’s a bit more niche demand in both the marching bands and in trad? I don’t think it’s that unusual to see them offered a bit closer to ‘flute’ prices if they play well at 440Hz.
Well, this is just my personal take on it, but I wouldn’t see them totally divorced from the treble Bb band flutes as most of the same factors affect them - just that they are far less common, though by no means rare. HP ones are worth rather little unless Crown AZs or something else a bit special, in which case the marching band types may be interested. Ones that play well at 440 are worth, in our ITM circles at least, rather more, and the usual criteria of original quality of workmanship and materials, current state, number of keys, brand-name if any and actual playing qualities (intonation, tone colour and strength) pertain in determining value (plus market conditions, of course). I’d say decent players in full playing condition (restored if needed) might be expected to go in the £100-350 range depending on the criteria I outlined - and exceptional ones might go up to £500, but that’d be pretty unusual. In the eBay attic-find market of unrestored ones, I’d say any HP examples bar specials shouldn’t go (as in don’t buy!) above £50- ish (listers tend to start them higher!). Ones clearly CP-capable one would be prepared to speculate rather more on, depending on condition etc.
I had a bamboo F flute back in the day, but I’ve never played a conical bore one. Anyone care to wax eloquent about the particular appeal F flutes have?
Anyone care to wax eloquent about the particular appeal F flutes have?
every played a low F whistle? It’s just a really nice pitch setting.
every sat in a session with a fiddle player who likes F, Bb, Gm and Abm? Next time I see Brendan Larrisey in a pub I shall be better prepared… (although he probably only does it to stop me playing along and spoiling the lovely tunes 
he’d be right 
)
..ever wanted to stop someone else in the session playing along with your lovely tunes? Buy an F flute 
Tom McElvogue’s new CD has a couple of F flute tracks. If I remember rightly, Harry Bradley has used one at times on his recordings. J-M V uses one loads in Breton music and it sounds fabulous. I’m sure others will chime in with examples.
My RC&Co 8-keyer (kinda “Pratten style”, so called around these parts).
Very nice flute, indeed.
I always pitch in when we discuss F Flutes; I wont wax but as I always point out - F Flutes are great for song accompaniment, they fit the keys that lots of singers like singing in. A good example is De Danann’s “Live Not Where I Love”, with Frankie playing an inventive line or two, to enhance M Black’s singing. They are easier to play, they are just the right size to leave by the kettle (to play while you are waiting for it to boil). They (good ones) produce a phenomenal bounce, pop and tone.
H
http://www.box.net/shared/av4ot966ah F Flute with R Fox & Fairport Convention (and me)
i do believe F flutes were known as 3/4 flutes back in the day.
And so right, Mr. Holmes. Love the F sound. As a former fifer, my hands are so much more happy playing on F flutes than the D or C or dreaded large Bb.
Too, wasn’t it your Pratten F that mcElvogue played on his tracks?
lovely stuff
d
Well, I bought this from ebay (sorry Steffen ):
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=130501944990
I would have prefered a loud F flute (like the one Paul McGlinchey sold a few days ago) and maybe less expensive (Paul’s went for less…) but I don’t want to wait forever, and I can still sell it again if I change my mind…
Ahem. That looks familiar, Lorenzo! It’s a nice little flute, but I’m pretty sure wouldn’t have met Steffen’s needs. Where is he anyway???
Does it? Was it yours?
Well, I sold it to the vendor. This was a relisting; I think his first listing actually mentioned me. The blurb and pics were mine. There’s probably an old C&F thread of mine from when I was selling it. Actually, I sold it twice, 1st time to a friend, then I found a better one she liked more, so traded it back in. Then Max bought it when I eBayed it.
What a small world
upstairs in a tent ?
marin
Shit, how much is he asking for it?