Just sat down to practice, and what do I see? Yep. Oh, well; slapped some tape on it for now and all should be well until I send it to the flute repair wiz in town. Probably explains my recent intonation troubles…I really knew it wasn’t me all along. Impossible!
Oddly enough, this happened after I started keeping “The Hammer” in a humidified environment per another thread. I’ll still continue the practice unless somebody has a sensibly contrary point of view on this. Up to now the old boy seemed bulletproof…but I’m pretty sure the crack has been there for a while already, just hard to see. Life in Minnesota, alas.
Oh sorry to hear that, Nanohedron! This is my first winter as a flute owner and I’m suddenly experiencing acute humidity anxiety: a ring has come loose from my Casey Burns, a key was sticky on my antique boxwood, and I’m afraid other unseen dangers may be lurking. When I first got my flutes, I was told to swab them dutifully after each playing. Recently I read that not swabbing may actually be good in the dry winter months, to keep moisture in. Thoughts?
I’m a firm believer in swabbing even in desert-dry conditions; IMHO, it’s the storage conditions that are key. All I ever used to do was oil the beast about once a month, and that seemed to at least cause no harm; lately the humidity control issue started making sense especially since my uilleann pipes showed their gratitude at being stored with sponges, etc. Big difference.
Here’s my guesses on what happened, as illustrated by my UPs: my pipes have real ivory fittings, mostly cracked with age, but stable until I started hydratin’ 'em. Now, the cracks have expanded visibly, and the ivory has become quite piable. They’re only for pretty, so no real problem. Otherwise, pipes and reed are very happy, much more so than before.
Segue to the aforementioned barrel: I suspect the same phenomenon is at work here. I think it’s reasonable to assume that the crack was there all along.
I DO believe that non-oily woods (like boxwood) probably need steady humidity when in storage, moreso than oily ones like blackwood, but apparently even blackwood ain’t delrin!
Ah, I could well humidify the ol’ stick with my very tears if only the aridity hadn’t already mummified my ducts…
I’m sorry to hear about that,
Any chance you could show us a picture of the crack? I’m curious as to what it looks like so I could identify if that ever happened to my flute.
Jack, I don’t yet know how to post pictures as I am a dork.
Still, -and not wanting to sound flippant, here- a crack’s a crack, not too hard to identify, really. Like most, this one runs along the grain, a wee bit curvaceous; for now, the wider gap starts from the ferrule at the tuning slide collar end and runs all the way to the other ferrule where the body tenon fits in. Fortunately most cracks are repairable; barrel replacement is another option for me, but not yet.
I found out the hard way a while back that too much humidity can be just as bad as not enough - Did you use a hygrometer in your humidified environment, to keep track of just how moist it was getting in there?
Just out of Curiosity: Who was your flute made by (not implying any fault of the maker here)?
Mea culpa, Loren. No hygrometer yet. Jeez, I hope I didn’t overdo it; still, I really think the crack was already there re: the intonation problems I was having…but maybe I’m just kidding myself.
As I recall, shouldn’t humidity be at about 40-50%? I REALLY have to get a couple of hygrometers or three.
Dave Williams made the flute. I’ve had it for about a year or more. Before long I’ll be sending it off for a head replacement anyway, so I may as well go for the barrel, too.
BTW, the comment I made abt. the ivory being “piable” has nothing to do with a certain monster-thread on the whistle forum: nothing cute about it.
N, argh
P.S. Loren, what happened in your case with excessive humidity?
[ This Message was edited by: Nanohedron on 2003-02-08 19:13 ]
The thing about too much humidity, besides possible mildew, is that it does exactly the opposite to wood that shrinking does – too much one way or the other causes the wood to expand (in this case) or contract (in the dry case) too much and the crack (which you wisely believe was probably there already) widened and there you go!
From what I understand, it’s less the percentage of humidity as the stability of that humidity. So, if the flute’s expanded alot from too much humidity, and you take it out and play it in dry conditions, it will begin to contract on the outside, even as you moisten the inside – probably more true with the less-absorbant woods like blackwood, 'cause they wouldn’t equalize as evenly.
It’s also slightly possible that the crack was caused earlier by some slight bang or bump, at a hairline level, and the humidity, literally, expanded on it.
I don’t think any of this was so much that you were humidifying it, as opposed to not doing much before, but that it’s more likely that whatever you were doing recently was a more sudden change than the wood could take.
Humidifying a blackwood flute is a still a very good thing to do, but like breaking in a new flute for playing, I think sudden, all at once, humidifying might be better done with caution, kinda like traveling with a flute from now-bone-dry NY (or Minnesota) and visiting Florida, it might react badly.
Just curious – what kind of oil are/were you using?
Sorry.
A friend’s blackwood flute
jsut cracked here in St. Louis.
Wasn’t humidifying. I’m
humidifying. I think the
humidity is supposed to
between 60 and 80.
Gordon, I have been using jojoba oil as I found almond to go tacky; didn’t like that. I found jojoba to be readily absorbed especially at the endgrains, and no discernible residue is left to catch tobacco bits, dustbunnies, etc. True, I haven’t heard of anyone else using this product, and it was based more on a hunch than scientific research. Still, it’s stood me in good stead for a while now.
Somehow I just never cared for the idea of mineral oil; maybe it’s just the old flower-child in me.
I know of two likely causes of barrel joint cracking. One is that the wood dries out, and cannot shrink because it is prevented by the metal liner, so it cracks instead. Humidification is a good way to reduce this risk. I think that oiling the outside also helps, but cannot support that opinion with hard data.
The other mechanism is excessive stress on the socket, caused by the tenon fitting too tightly. This can start a crack in the thin socket wall, which then propagates through the remaining length of the barrel. The risk of this type of cracking can be made worse by over-humidification if it causes the tenon to expand. The best defense against this type of crack is to make sure that the top joint does not get to be a real tight fit. If it is consistently tight, you can lightly sand off a little of the cork with 220 grit sandpaper, or remove some turns of thread if it is a thread-lapped joint. I would rather have a joint slightly too loose than too tight. If it wobbles slightly on assembly and then tightens up after playing, that’s probably about right.
Thanks, Dave. You know, that WAS a tight fit. A word to the wise, and I’ll be keeping that one in mind for the future.
Thanks to everyone for your input! I’m hoping this thread continues for a while, especially to cover humidity issues and options so that we can all benefit and with luck (or better) preserve the integrity of our instruments.
This flute forum is getting to be a scarey place to visit. The Son of Sam has nothing on Nanohedron, a gcollin’s blight of cracked or snapped barrels
I live in a condo with concrete walls and electric heat, I run two humifiers and use dampits in my one and only Burns flute, and I still have problems of either to wet or to dry.
I’ve tried placing it in a closed PCV pipe, it gets to wet and swollen. Dampits just in the barrel sitting on the table - not enough to keep the rings on it.
I oil it religiously but it is always a struggle to keep tight enough to play.
I know that this doesn’t help those injured, but Clancy (my 25LB attack cat) rolled it off the kitchen table once, and my jaw dropped, I went white, I wanted to throw up and moved faster than I have ever had in my life!
“P.S. Loren, what happened in your case with excessive humidity?”
Excessive swelling ruined one whistle, and caused another to sound completely different - in a very unpleasant way.
With regards to flutes: My Olwell (Cocus) got over humidified for a just a few days (due to an inaccurate hygrometer), and one of the tennons lengthend so much that when the flute was assembled, and the tennon inserted flush against the end of the socket, there was a 2mm gap at the outside of the joint! I couldn’t believe it at first, I was like “Hey, what the heck is stuck in there?!?!” When I confirmed what was going on, I slowly lowered the humidity in my storage box, and gradually the tennon shrunk back to it’s proper length, but Sheesh: I was amazed that the wood actually ELONGATED! (Probably a combination of the tennon and socket sides each stretching a bit, rather than simply the tennon.)
Anyway, all is fine now, but I keep the humidity a bit lower now I suspect Blackwood wouldn’t have reacted so radically.
A suggestion about Hygrometers (one I’ve made here before): I read some reasearch on the Martin Guitar Forum regarding the accuracy of many hygrometers - well let’s just say that most non-scientific grade Hygrometers are a real gamble, especially if they can’t be calibrated. According to a round of controlled tests, one of the best relatively inexpensive humidity gauges out there is made by Oregon Scientific - It’s actually a multi-function device that also measures temperature and some other stuff I believe, and has the option of a wireless remote reading unit, very cool. You can find them on the Oregon Scientific website, and sometimes much cheaper on ebay.
The price includes the sensor and remote viewing station, or you can click on the link for the sensor which also has a digital readout, and that’s only about $35.
The cool thing about these OS wireless Temp/Hygrometer units is that most are multi channel, so you can use multiple remotes with the same receiving unit: Use one in your flute storage box, one in your guitar case, and one in your cigar humidor, then sit back in you easy chair and keep an eye on the conditions while have a glass of wine by the fire…
On 2003-02-09 11:34, Nanohedron wrote:
Gordon, I have been using jojoba oil as I found almond to go tacky; didn’t like that. I found jojoba to be readily absorbed especially at the endgrains, and no discernible residue is left to catch tobacco bits, dustbunnies, etc. True, I haven’t heard of anyone else using this product, and it was based more on a hunch than scientific research. Still, it’s stood me in good stead for a while now.
Somehow I just never cared for the idea of mineral oil; maybe it’s just the old flower-child in me. >
N, granola crumbs in my flute
Yeah, well I certainly don’t want to start another oil thread but I was curious. One maker on Woodenflute had gone as far as implying (actually, saying) that flutes oiled with almond might seem to crack more readily than with drying oils. No one ever discussed jojoba, to my knowledge!
I recently switched to flaxseed(linseed) and it seems to work well, but I think Dave has the best handle on what probably happened to your flute, if the tenon was tight.
Considering how many fluters we have on these lists, we really don’t see all that much cracking, percentage-wise, no matter what we seem to use or do.
Truly sorry your’s became a case-in-point! I have an old flute with a crack repaired sometime in its history, and it’s never reopened. So, maybe it’s like a new car – get a dent, get it fixed, now you can relax…
Hi folks. I’m new to the form. I’ve been playing tin whistle for about 12 years now and started with the flute about three years ago. I was looking for info on cracks in flutes and how it can alter the sound of the flute. I have a crack in the barrel of my flute, which was probably caused by the tennon fitting too tightly into the socket, as dcopely described. I’ve had the flute for three years, and the crack has been there for quite some time. I’ve never had it repaired; I simply wrapped tape around the barrel over the crack. It plays okay, and every once in a blue moon I get a real nice sound. I often get that ‘hissing’ sound, but I figured it is caused by poor technique on my part. Anyway, I’m wondering if that “real nice sound” is coming from something I’m doing different, or from the flute itself? I guess what I’m getting at is, if I get the crack fixed professionally, will I always get that nice sound? Another thing is, a few months after I got the flute I had one of thouse practice sessions when something right happened and I got this totally awsome sound on my rolls, sort of like a real snap or pop on the taps and cuts that really separated the notes. I think I could even feel it in my fingers. Now I can only get that every once in a while on high E rolls and D crans, and a little on high A. Is that due to the crack, or just poor technique on my part?